Comments on this site are not necessarily the opinion of the Dart 15 committee.
Comments are not moderated and people's screen names may not be accurate.
I have bought the Cat Hawk wind indicator for fitting on the bridle. This unit has fully adjustable 'reference' arms.
Can anyone give me a reasonable setting for the angle between the reference arms for general use on the Sprint 15?
As the vane had its own fixed arms at a swept back angle my own guess is use a starting point of setting the adjustable arms so that the fixed ones will line up with the vane at 45 degrees either way (total 90 degree wind angle). But this could be too much angle for racing.
Comments please - help needed to try and catch the dynamic Dutch duo this season (if I can get the holes in my hulls repaired in time)!!
Hi Steve,
I had a Cat Hawk some years ago and liked it for a while as it was delicate and moved quickly. Over a period of time I got less enamoured with it for the following reasons:
- It was delicate and easily damaged or bent
- I could never keep the arms in the right place
- it is useless going downwind as it is in the sailors wind shadow
- it is not a very useful guide upwind as it is not indicating what is important which is the wind over the sails.
The only thing it is useful for is as an indicator in the helmsmans line of sight of a sudden biggish wind shift.
The best indicators in my view are as follows:
1) The telltales or woollies on the sails. They show you what is happening to the wind on the sails which is what matters. When beating on a light wind day you should be spending more than 50% of your time looking up the sail at the telltales. I know it can be tough on the neck but you get used to it. When sailing Unarig upwind if to can get the top telltale on the main sail streaming for 50% of the time that's about right. If you get the middle and lower tell tales streaming when you are going upwind you are bearing off too much! When you are reaching you should aim to get all the tell tales streaming. Many people do not seem to adjust the sail on a reach. It makes a huge difference if you keep playing the main sheet to keep all the telltales streaming.
2) The burgee. It is directly in your line of sight when looking up at the telltales and is a good sense check if the telltales stall or stick to the sail. Additionally it is BY FAR THE BEST indicator when going straight down wind. It is in clear air. It tells you when it is a tactical time to gybe (or when you are sailing by the lee and are about to do an involuntary gybe.
3) The standard cloth wind indicator hung on the windwand under the bridle. It is much improved if hung on a small ring (or cable tie) to make it more sensitive. It only is a crude indicator of a wind change when beating if you happen to be looking forward. For any proper adjustments to be made you have to look at the telltales. The same applies to your Cat Hawk
If you ever sail with the jib (trapeze or 2-up) then I would put the jib at the top of this list. It is a huge and obvious wind indicator both upwind and downwind.
So sorry but my view is that you have wasted your money on the Cat Hawk which is more a fashion accessory than a useful guide to sailing fast.
Regards
Bob
PS You could give it to Kevin Dutch and tell him that "where he has been going wrong is he has not got one of these"
PPS if you want to try using it after all this negative encouragement - start with the arms at 30degress to the centre line of the boat (so that the included angle is 60degrees). After that adjust it by trial and error after each days sailing. So watch it and the telltales when beating. After each sail tweak the settings to line up with where you think it should be. It is clear however that it is only a secondary indication of what is important (the wind over the sails). So if you grow to depend on it each time it gets bent or the arms move (which is often in my experience) you will be all at sea heading in the wrong direction and Kevin will be over the horizon. It is much much better to get used to sailing the boat using the primary indicators.
Yes all understood. The sail telltales and bridle telltale (on a ring) are what we use all the time. However with coloured sails I cannot see the leeward sail telltales very easily and the angle of the ribbon on the bridle telltale is deceptive when hiked out.
I agree that relying on the Cat Hawk is not the way to go - it is just another tool in the armoury. Thanks for the suggested starting point for the reference setting.
I want to see what help it gives to judging wind angle particularly pre-race and on first lap to help judge tack and gybe angles for subsequent laps. I will see how it goes.
I've given up using a Cat Hawk but only because I had replaced so many - lost in accidents (a Laser going backwards, a pitchpole et al ), a probable theft.....
I found the Cat Hawk most useful when sailing off wind in Sport mode. I used to set the indicator arms for an exact 90 degree angle of the vane to the boat. When sailing I'd use this as a starting point for bearing away (I can't remember ever having to luff up from this angle on a downwind leg!), trying to judge the best downwind angle for optimum downwind speed - which varies depending on wind strength and wave action (you have to steer to use the waves to best advantage, but you'll know this from sailing at Seasalter). If you lose downwind speed (eg due to variable wind or hitting a wave) the 90 degree angle gives you the limit to how far to luff up to regain speed before bearing away again to maximise downwind speed.
It can also be useful in very light conditions because the standard tell tale tends to dangle less than helpfully - a change in apparent wind is then more readily detected.
I agree that can be easier to see the apparent wind angle from the Hawk vane and indicators than the standard bridle telltale.
A Cat Hawk is less useful sailing unarig, particularly for the reasons given by Bob about it being significantly affected by the wind shadow from mainsail and the helm, and for sailing downwind in extremely light conditions in Sport mode.
But make sure that you get the vane exactly balanced on the mounting needle - otherwise you'll get misleading indication in light winds - especially due to the fact that you'll probably be sailing the cat with your weight forward to dig in the bows and lift the transoms..... There's a metal balancing weight in the underside of the vane that you can move if it's not already exactly right when you bought it.
Many thanks for your information. Joan and I normally sail our 15s unarig and yes downwind we do use the swell and tide extensively in light winds. We can quite often get the boats 'surfing'.
Setting for 90 degree vane for downwind sounds the most useful for the reference arms. We are both quite light so even at full stretch on the tiller it is difficult to get bows down to raise the skegs so I will try to balance the arm for hulls flat - I had noted the bar underneath for that.
The key reason for wanting to try it is the lack of response of the bridle telltale (even with a ring) in light airs. Our 18 will probably benefit more but we will see.
I have found Joan's skegs are about 20mm low after the years of them obviously being recoated without a reference height - I have now made up a wooden former of the curve from the stern to the skeg peak and then forward for about 3 inches (taken from a nearly new boat) to use for building them back up so that should help her upwind performance as lack of pointing ability was letting her down compared with other boats
Back on the water hopefully in about 6 weeks to try it all out.
Doh! I think I will leave my new Cat Hawk in it's box now. Are there any other toys I should not waste my time on?
Bob, when you are talking about the top woollie on the mainsail flying 50% of the time when beating, I take it you mean the windward one?
Also, I am confused about penalty turns for right of way infringements - is it 360 or 720?
Robert.
I'd try and get both the top woolies streaming together both windward and leeward ones in other words.
The penalty for Cats is normally adjusted by the Sailing Instructions for the club or event to 360 but some clubs might not do this in which case its 720. A 720 penalty is way TOO severe for cats since they tack so slowly compared to a dinghy so it works out even anyway if you are sailing against dinghies in a handicap fleet.
So I'd read your SI's and check, badger your sailing committee if they haven't changed it for cats!
Martin Searle
D15 1331
Ex Sprint 15 Webmaster
Ex Seasalter SC Webmaster
RYA Regional Race Officer (South East Region) (Expired)
RYA Club Race Coach (Expired)
RYA Dinghy Sailing Instructor (Expired)
I guess that if the leeward woollie isn't streaming then the sail has stalled and I'm pointing too far downwind. I usually find it a bit of a game getting the windward one going and not feeling as though cats won't point at all. Clearly more experience needed here...
Thanks for the turns advice. I think there was something about this at the last event I went to, so Draycote is definitely on the ball.
Hi Robert
On the 360 degree penalty turn we always request that clubs substitute a 360 turn for a 720 turn in the SIs. Our event guideline has this instruction in it and if I do my job properly & check all the SIs comply you should never have to do a 720 turn at one of our events.
On the telltales when sailng upwind it is the windward tell tales I refer to.
Bob Carter wrote:Hi Robert
<snipage!>
On the telltales when sailng upwind it is the windward tell tales I refer to.
Cheers
Bob
Thats interesting, do you bother with the leeward ones at all? or do you refer to them occasionally. Also I noticed that George and others had telltales at the ends of their battens at the Nationals last year do these help or just provide extra windage
Martin S.
Ex Sprint 15 Webmaster
Ex Seasalter SC Webmaster
RYA Regional Race Officer (South East Region) (Expired)
RYA Club Race Coach (Expired)
RYA Dinghy Sailing Instructor (Expired)
Hi Martin
Yes, I do use the tell tales on both sides of the sails but when beating you have to be a long way off the wind for the leeward tell tales on the main to lift. It is therefore the windward top tell tale that I spend most of my time watching when beating in unarig mode. On all other points of sailing it is both side tell tales I watch (all 6). The leeward tell-tales on a jib seem much more sensitive upwind.
Yes I tried leech tell-tales towards the top of the sail on one boat some years ago. People do report that they are useful but I never found myself using them. I know George has them on one of his sails - let's see what he says as to how useful he finds them.
Cheers
Bob
