Buy and Sell, price guide

[Andrew Hannah]

If you look at the front page of the association website, there is a Buy and Sell section, with a price guide sub-section. If you open this, you will see a column headed colours. I have always been intrigued by this column.

Do the colours refer to the sails, or do they refer to the hulls, or both?

Andrew,
1520 a "Race" model
TBYC.

[Bob Carter]

Hi Andrew
The colours column I made up. It refers to a combination of the hull & the sail predominant colours - generally ignoring the whites & greys. It is not a comprehensive description but does help people identify the model.
Cheers
Bob

[Andrew Hannah]

Thanks Bob,

I read your note (on another thread) about Erling car-topping his Sprint.

For some time, I have been thinking of disposing my ungainly road trailer and to car-top myself.

In order to do so, is it necessary to have a big car eg an estate car, perhaps a Volvo? My car is a VW Polo. Is car-topping recommended for a car of this size?

I'd be pleased to have any observations.

Andrew.

[Martin Searle]

Thanks Bob,

<snip>

In order to do so, is it necessary to have a big car eg an estate car, perhaps a Volvo? My car is a VW Polo. Is car-topping recommended for a car of this size?

I used to car top my boat with a 1.0L Vauxhall Nova, you can't get much more naff (or small than that). It needed a roofrack that was wide enough (made by Thule) to fit the boat in bits on it but it worked fine, it overhanged the sides of the car by about a foot each side.

You need to check that the roof pillars can take the weight of the boat.

I transported the boat back from Banbury on it after purchasing in a terrible rainstorm and all was fine. They took one look at my old roof rack, it was totally naff, and told me to buy their recomended one!

Strangely towing is easier but I found it a lot more stressful when I had my next car a Citroen ZX. I kept checking that A) it was still there and hadn't fallen off the back and B) on narrow country lanes it got a bit interesting when meeting on-coming traffic.

These days I don't think you can get a roof rack that'll take the boat that will fit my Toyota Celica, anyone know? Certainly not from Toyota.

Martin S.

[George Stephen]

Andrew,

The following thoughts are a slightly edited version of an email I sent to a fellow club member who was thinking along your lines…..

When you've got a trailer, why car-top?

PROs
If you are going somewhere by ferry (or Chunnel...) then you do save quite a lot by car-topping - the Isle of Wight regulars (mainly Erling and Paul from Shanklin) on the Travellers circuit nearly always car-top for this reason. If ever I take my D15 abroad again (maybe including Scotland), I'd probably car-top - partly to save money, partly to be able to go faster......

CONs
Yes. it is hassle to breakdown at the Club/Home, car-top and when you arrive "un-car-top", and make up. And then when tired after the event is over to break down, car-top (and possibly later un-car-top when you get home) - I found the latter worse than the former.

When I went to a teach-in (1993) I was told that 4 guys had taken just 4 minutes to get a car-topped D15 onto the water and sailing! They must have practised, but even if you added 50% before multiplying by 4 (there's just the one of you) to get 24 minutes you'd find that this is a difficult target to achieve (I think I've beaten this, but you have to go flat out to do it). But you do get better with practice, especially if you adopt a reliable routine that you always use (or only amend for the future when you get a really useful tip!

ESSENTIAL
As well as checking the roof rack or roof bars load limits you must check you car roof loading limit in the car hand book - probably in the Technical Data, possibly close to the trailing limit data. If you are lucky it will be 100kg. If it's 70kg, I think the hulls and mast alone could be heavier.

DON’T be tempted by cheaper roof racks and bars that have only pressed steel brackets between the roof rack/bars and where they fit onto your car (make sure you get the right fitting here – modern cars tend not to have gutters, instead having inset places under plastic strip cover for such accessories). Weaker brackets may twist or buckle under the strains coming from the effect of apparent windage on the hulls, especially when you drive in a gusty cross wind. Go for Thule or similar. Halfords aren’t always cheaper than your local car accessory shop, which may also have a different range of makes on offer – but they may have to order what you want….

TIPs
The hulls act like wings, and need to be very firmly tied down or they will "move around". It is advisable to fit the crossbars with "padding" - I've got some Laser Centre ones that came with my (2nd hand) boat, but I expect windsurfer board ones would do admirably. This padding will help take out the effect of the rounded decks as well as help restrict movement.

I used to tie down with long straps, but the best suggestion I heard was to get 2 stout wooden beams (fencing stakes?) that you cut just long enough to go through both hulls (where the beams go) and leave enough on either side for tying down. You put the hulls on the crossbars, put the stakes through the beam holes and then tie the stakes to the crossbars - very close to each hull. A long pair of straps over the top of the hulls can hold the trolley hull mouldings on (see below), and provide a safety line. If you use this method, put a couple of chunks of plastic (polystyrene) packing foam between the hulls to keep them apart, and you then just need the outer tie downs on the stakes.

Tie a length of string between the bridle wire hull fittings to restrict hull movement (they tend to try to blow apart at the front. You can also tie string through the rudder gudgeons. In very gusty winds, you might want to tie string from the front beam holes to the outside of the roof rack/bars, to prevent them toeing in. (Bob Milton used a metal strip, with ends shaped to match the bridle chain plate angles, and 2 holes for bolting the strip to each hull, preventing both individual hull inward and outward movement at this point)

If you use long straps, over the hulls, you may be able to use one very long strap (or a long strap plus a short strap) to tie down both hulls at once, but if you do this take the strap over one hull, down under the crossbar and up over the next hull etc to keep them apart and keep them from tilting towards each other - ie much as it would be if you were to tie each hull down separately.

If you use straps rather than ropes to tie down, ALWAYS put a half twist in every length that is longer than about 8 inches between touching points (you should also do this on a trailer!). If you don't, the airflow will cause the straps to vibrate and thrum. It's not the noise that's the real problem: it's the wear on the adjacent touching points - you could wear through a strap completely on a long run of a few hundred miles…… The half twist stops the vibration. This applies especially if you use long straps over the hulls.

I sometimes put the beams in the car (diagonally with one or both of the rear seats folded down as they are c 7 feet long), sometimes I put them on the roof in a bundle with the 2 mast pieces - I cut "rectangular "Us" out of the sides of 4 approx 1 foot lengths of spare 3 by 1 timber so that they could be assembled into a pair of "crosses" to keep the mast halves and 2 beams apart. I used some hefty shock cord round to hold them in place while I car-topped the bundle and then tied the bundle to the roof bars - I tended to use the main halyard - just long enough. But ALWAYS tie the trampoline tensioning line through any of the slides in the rear beam that might otherwise fall out - I arrived for a Nationals and had to beg slides from other Sprinters until I could get some from a chandler! Also, wrapping the toe straps round the rear beam and tying them off will mean you won’t assemble your cat in a hurry, and leave the toe straps off…… (If you have an old Spark, then you may have wider slots which enabled the really old style toe straps, and hence also new ones, to be inserted after assembly.)

As regards the trolley, I used to take it to bits, and car-top only the hull mouldings - tying them over the hulls – after taking off the short plastic spacing tubes that keep the trolley wheels from rubbing the trolley moulding. Trolley wheels went in the back (boot if you don't have an estate car). The trolley tube (with the internal narrower gauge tubes re-secured by reinserting the bolts) went in the sail bag in the centre of the rolled up sail along with tiller extension and tiller connecting bar and the rear trampoline tube, with the trampoline wrapped round the sail. If you tie the sail bag up tightly, this can also be car-topped, but the sail will suffer from the pressure of the straps or ropes you use to tie the sail bag to the roof rack/bars….

Rudders have to go in the car, and you need a bag or box for the rigging, toe straps (if you don’t use my tip above!), and odds and sods (especially those short plastic "packing tubes" that keep the trolley wheels and tyres clear of the hull mouldings). I suggest a small tarpaulin for the boot/back of the car, so you can keep dirty bits off the car and other luggage.

I ended up using long crossbars which I could arrange to leave about a foot "clear" on the nearside of the car (not my head to duck!!). I could then lift the bow of each hull up onto to the front sticking out bit of crossbar, and then go back and lift the stern of the hull onto the back bar, and then waggle the hull into its tie down position. You can then demount and remount the hulls single-handed, without being superman and without waiting for assistance with the hulls – fellow Sprinters are always willing, but not always exactly when you want their help – but beware of using my technique when it’s windy enough to move unrestrained hulls on the car roof!

As regards making up the cat, getting the beams into the 2nd hull is always tricky (remember to slot your toe straps into the rear beam first – see above). It helps to have assistance with this, and it helps to get some practice at doing it yourself!!!! Either way, it helps to know how far apart to have the hulls so that when you right the 2nd
hull it is then just right for fiddling in the beams (already in place in the other hull!).

I always found the most tricky thing was fitting the trampoline - the ideal number of people for this purpose is 4 (or 3 if one has long ambidextrous arms) – 2 to pull each side along the tramp tubes, the 3rd/4th to ensure that the tramp feeds easily into each tube (it tends to jam). Doing this single-handed can be very time-consuming. Remember you’ll have to tension the tramp – again it takes a bit of time.

Remember also to have the cat facing down wind when you put the mast up, or have the trolley under the sterns that the cat is tipped forward - it makes tying off the forestay so much easier.


Good luck

[Bob Carter]

Hi Andrew,
We all have our views. Mine is roof racking is a lot of hassle for a normal weekend traveller event. I would avoid it unless you have a strong reason to roof rack (like Erling & Co who are reducing ferry fares). If you roof rack there is no easy way to separate your car and boat apart from taking it all off before and after the trip - this adds to the logistics problems. The other consideration is quite a lot of the boat does not go on the roof rack (rudders, sails, trolley, cover, rigging, etc) - in fact the less that goes on the roof rack the better. With a big car it soon fills up, with a small car it is more tricky. I suddest that you try it for a weekend before you make any irrevocable decision.
Regards
Bob

[Steve Willis]

Martin,

My recommendation is do not even look for a roof rack for your car. There was a type for Toyotas that had outriggers backwards to sit on the sloping hatchback but prevented the hatch being opened.

The main problem is your lack of front-rear roof horizontal roof line. Joan and I both tried on our old Celicas with wind surfers and that was interesting - let alone the extra drag of cat hulls.

The effect of driving with all the kit on the roof is that the wind resistance tries to push and lift the front of the load - one mph to many and you could have the lot in the road because there is no real way to clamp a rack except into the door aperture.

Better to get a towbar and use your trailer.

Steve

[Andrew Hannah]

I would like to thank all those who contributed replies, particularly George Stephen who covered practically everything.

I have decided to keep my road trailer. It does seem a trailer is the preferable mode to transport a Sprint. But that car-topping is a viable alternative.

Andrew.