How much difference do new sails make?

[cedric]

How much difference do new sails make?
I think my sail is the original going by the colours etc, which means as the boat number is 1201 it is probably 1988, a mere 19 years old. I thought it looked pretty good for it’s age but it does show signs of age, worn rope area, discoloured areas and marks where they have worn against the shrouds and not as crinkly as it might be.
When I bought the boat I was looking for a cheap way to try cats and specifically Dart/Sprint 15’s to see if I like them with the intention that if I did like them then I would probably upgrade as necessary or even at some stage looking for a new/newish boat.
The answer is a definite yes I much prefer cats and my Byte has now been for sale for a couple of weeks!

Obviously the main reason that the boat does not go as well as it might do is the helm but I have chatted to the bloke that runs our training school, who also sails cats, spitfires and hobies, a few times and every time he says I should get a new sail and that waiting until I am better at sailing the Dart is a mistake and is making it harder to learn as well as slower in races.
Sails are not cheap and so my options are to keep what I have and at some stage swap the whole thing or keep patching the hulls & rudders, which are probably more delicate with age and previous repairs but probably go as well as newer ones, and look at a new sail.

How long do most people keep their sails?

[Steven Tunnacliffe]

Cedric

My boat is not much younger than yours (1343) 1989 I think. I have the original multi couloured sail and a newer one which when I bought the boat about 5 years ago had hardly been used, 6 times I was told, I use the newer sail for all the TT events and ocasionally for club sailing basically to preserve it for as long as possible.

the difference in the two sails is quite remarkable, the older sail is the one I use most for my club sailing and in light to medium winds does very well, I win races with it, there is still plenty of life left in it, some patches on batten pockets (usually about 3 a year its windy up in Halifax).

the disadvantage is that it will not point quit as high as the newer sail and is harder to control in stronger winds say bottom end of force 5 to force 6 because you cant flatten the sail and minimize the power after that I get out the newer sail as you can flatten it more even though you cringe every jibe as your new sail takes a hamering from shrouds and the sudden stop on the traveller always looking up hoping not to see a broken batten poking out somewhere.

And as for you saying the bloke on the helm needs improving, dont we all, as far as I could see at Seasalters you did very well to say you have only just got the boat they are a bit quick and trixy sometimes.

[Bob Carter]

Hi Cedric
Yes new sails help quite a lot particularly when pointing, but watching you sail at Seasalter you would not do the new sails justice at the present time and you might just as well get your learning in on the old sail for a while. So I would advise sticking with the old sail for this season and think about buying a new sail (or trading up your boat) for next season.

Sprint 15 Sails typically last a long time 5-10 years is common. In 1997 the old sail cloth became obselete and we opted to use the higher spec & stiffer sail cloth used on Dart 18s which lasts even better than the old material. Quite a lot of us have 2 sails - I do. We then use the old one in heavy winds and keep the better (newer) sail for lighter winds and open meetings. My old sail dates from 1997 and I bet I've used it for 75% of my sailing over the last 10 years & I still reckon it is pretty good and never feel like blaming it if I do not do well.

Your boat is now 19 years old so it might be worth trading it up if you are still enjoying sailing the catamaran in the Spring. Newer boats are inherently more reliable and quite a lot of the fittings have improved since 1988 (e.g. Mainsheet, tiller fittings, sail cloth, tramp tracks/tramp, fairlead fixings, chain plates, etc). the good news is that you can always sell on old boats quickly and never seem to make a loss - they are like houses and appreciate.

Cheers

Bob

[Bob Carter]

PS 1201 was the second Dart 15 built after the Laser Centre upgraded it from the Spark and introduced the new colour scheme (Tonga). It will have been sold at the 1988 boat show at Earl's Court in January & delivered in the spring of that year. At the same show that year I signed up for a demo ride with Peter Ewing & I bought a second hand Spark #525 in April which was displaced when someone bought a new Tonga model (also from the boat show). I paid £1250 for #525 19 years ago when it was 9 years old (but had no jib) - I bet it would still fetch £1000 - how many classes could match that?

[cedric]

Thanks for the advice on the sails, I can see it leading to a more expensive upgrade next year and Bob thanks for the info on my boat I have added it to the 1201 entry in the boat database.

[Andrew Hannah]

I recently spoke to someone who used to work with Hyde Sails. He rather gave the game away by saying old Sprint/Dart 15/Spark sails are rarely beyond redemption! So, it is worth keeping them going, even if they become a spare sail.

I inadvertently kept my old Spark sail (1060) when I sold the boat last year. In 2007, I have lent this old sail to five separate owners whilst their own sails have gone for repair. An old saying goes, "Never sell a sail".

Another saying is "Good sailors have good sails". I use my old sail for club racing which means I'm a bad sailor. And I use my new sail for TT events, which makes me................er...........um...........Perhaps I've got that wrong!

I agree with Bob that a new sail is wasted on a beginner. Much better to save the new sail till later.

A final saying, "A good tennis player with a bad tennis racket, will always beat a bad player with a good tennis racket!"

Andrew,
TBYC.

[Steve Willis]

Cedric,

As has been noted by others old sails do have their advantages at times and in light conditions, particularly on the downwind legs they seem to give more advantage -baggier. I use one that is about 12 years old but had been laid up when nearly new for 10 years. i.e. it is the old material but in good nick. Joan's 842 had the original 1982AD sail with patches all over it and we changed that this year because it was definitely well past its prime. Mine seems fine - I can't out perform it yet.

Last year, after the training weekend, we paid quite a bit of attention to playing with mast rake and forestay tension and managed to improve upwind performance quite a lot - getting the skegs built up to original height helped as well.

Looking at your sail in action at Seasalter I would say save your money for a while yet and look at rig settings and skegs.

I have found that with my old one you have to be careful not to oversheet though - it will not go anywhere 'block to block' without stalling and when laid on Joan's new one it is somewhat shorter (but wider).

By the way if you want a high res copy of the photo of you flying a hull at SSC e-mail me at ssc@ehvpa.com with your e-mail address.

Steve