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Downwind Sailing

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Bob Carter
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Downwind Sailing

Post by Bob Carter »

I got the chance to listen to Paul Goodison talk on downwind sailing in a Laser at the Dinghy Show on Sunday. It was excellent. The technique revolved around sailing by the lee and negotiating waves. On a Sprint 15 unarig we have the disadvantages that you cannot tilt the boat to get the rudderless steering effect and the lack of a kicker means we cannot control the sail twist, but now that I understand how to do it I suspect that it is an area of our Sprint 15 sailing which we probably have not optimised. I bet if a good downwind Laser sailer took up Sprint 15 sailing we would be taught a thing or two. The only people who I have observed sailing by the lee effectively were Martin Barson at Herne Bay some years ago and Chris black at Grafham occaisionally gets it going well sailing by the lee.
It is well worth giving it a try. To do it effectively you have to not let the main out so far and to get the tell tails flying in the reverse direction (from the leach to the mast). It is only applicable to unarig sailing so not many cat classes will have experimented with it. :wink:
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Bob
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Robert
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Post by Robert »

Having sailed over people's wakes downwind I've found that the lee helm sometimes experienced on a fifteen is akin to rolling to windward on a monohull. I understand that some laser sailors don't counteract this when it occurs but actually pull the tiller a bit more to create a desired rotational force from the rudder under the boat whilst diving across the other side to recover the balance. This is a bit counter-intuitive, as is sailing by the lee. On a cat it must put the brakes on a bit when correcting the aforementioned lee helm so next time I feel it maybe I'll let out the main a bit and see what happens - so long as I don't do a Nick and tear a hole in the boat to leeward. If there are good waves this (sailing by the lee) might make una rig a faster ride in open water without other boats nearby to artificially change the direction of the waves.
Brian Phipps
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downwind

Post by Brian Phipps »

Having watched the back end of George Carters boat down wind for more than a few times during the last Nationals at Thorpe bay I learnt a lot , which I then started put into practise during the event. One size does not fit all (something I am alway preaching) you have to find your way, but that should not stop you observing and then trying things out. George has a very slick way of working the boat down wind using all the things around him, waves, wind, current etc he feels when to take the depth and when to maintain speed, I am not sure if sailing by the lee in a cat is the same as a dinghy but it would be good to test that out in a training enviroment boat on boat.
ps. Ian Fraser also went to that talk and found it very interesting.
Brian Phipps
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Andrew Hannah
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Post by Andrew Hannah »

Is there a minimum strength of wind to make this work? If there are waves, presumably it must be minimum F3-4.

I don't quite see how it works. If the waves are approaching from the leward quarter, I assume the intention would be to shunt the boat to windward. This would seem to be the wrong way to go, in a downwind leg.

Possibly it has something to do with airflow over the sail. Hence Bob's observation about tell-tales streaming the 'wrong' way.

Talking through my hat as usual! :lol: Andrew.
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Charles
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Post by Charles »

Hmmm... will have to think about this & try it out, perhaps with a little less wine in my system than this evening!
Charles
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Georgecart
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Sailing by the lee?

Post by Georgecart »

Hi Everybody!

This is in many ways my favourite point of sailing from a tactical point of view! You can jybe without losing the distance you would when tacking upwind and the waves are with you. There are just as many windshifts on the run as there are upwind and you have so many choices. Also you can relax and think a bit more as you are not spending most of your effort hiking. When there is a bit of breeze, say F3+ then you really can use the gusts to take the boat further downwind.

I never really looked at the tell-tales to see them streaming the opposite way, but surely when you look at the burgee and it it pointing at the back of the sail then you are sailing by the lee! I almost always have my main completely out with the whole sheet (Steve Sawford standard) out with just enough sheet plus traveller to reach the mast where I am.

Brian was absolutely right in his observations of my sailing. I want to get to that mark as fast as possible. Most of the time that means sailing very low, sometimes slightly higher but normally very low. Sometime I see an opportunity to take the boat very very low and sail right by the lee. It may be some good waves, a gust - this is the most common, another boat you want to cover or blanket or maybe it just feels good!

I look at the burgee at lot when running. I always am amazed at the people who don't sail with burgees as it is an absolutely essential indicator to me. Bridle indicators are too low to be effective particularly downwind. Typically my burgee it is either pointing straight backwards or towards the leeward quarter at the sail. In lighter winds sometimes it may be towards the windward quarter, but as the wind picks up this is rarer. I look back to see where the gusts are and I work hard to take every opportunity to sail low. It often helps to hold the mast to stop it from slopping around and you often see me sat on the front beam with the mast between my legs - it's just easier than using your arm all the time and it makes sure that you have your weight a good way forward.

You can also use your burgee to see if somebody else is sat taking your wind (normally Stuart Snell :-) ) and you can use other people's burgees to direct you where to put your boat to sit on their wind!

As the wind picks up you will need to shuffle back a bit in the gusts, but when it dies, you need to get the weight back forwards to be able to pick up the waves. Of course when it is very windy you'll be right at the back, but at Thorpe bay it was only that windy on the last day.

I have found that the boat is fast even when the burgee is pointing at the sail, and of course you are sailing very low when that is the case. If you are not paying very close attention and get a small windshift, the burgee will flick beyond the sail and you will be gybing.... Heading up quickly when you see this happing will catch this, but you need to be on your toes.

Catching and surfing the waves the best way possible is something that takes a lot of practice to master. Sometimes you can just get it all wrong and the boat stops, but when you get it right then you really do get the extra speed that you can use to sail right by the lee and get the boat further towards the leeward mark. If I get a really good wave, I bear off so that I am right on the edge of gybing to make the most of the surf and get the boat as low as possible.

It takes courage to bear off low at the start of the run. Normally if other boats are right behind you, the best way is to bear off hard and fast right at the mark. If you bear off the most and fastest then you will have nobody above you. Gybing at the mark will also give you clear wind, but just try and balance all this with the fact that you can gain 20 yards by having a nice clean fast mark rounding with a nice slow turn....

Sometimes other boats will sail above you and sometimes they will catch a gust and overtake you, but more often than not sailing by the lee is the fastest, particularly when you are in waves and when the wind is F3+

I am glad to see this topic come up as I have often thought in the last few years that the 15 shares more characteristics with a Laser than most other cats as it is very sensitive to weight, you can actually sail by the lee and as it is small then some body kinetics can be used. I remember watching a video of Ben Ainslie demonstrating the technique that Dad saw in this talk a few years ago and that is what influenced the way I sail the run in waves. I was amazed by how much he turned the boat to try and get the best waves, easily through 90deg between the lowest and highest he was sailing. It looked a bit like this finn video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hujuxvo3 ... PL&index=2

I think that it a really good Laser sailer took a 15 out then we could all learn a lot from them!

I look forward to stories of sailing by the lee.

George
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Robert
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Post by Robert »

Great post George - thanks for the link :D Blimey if everyone sailing Una rig starts doing this we'll have to adjust the relative PY's for una/sport for sure!
Charles
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Post by Charles »

Funny how George didn't post this when he was still Sprinting :wink:

Still useful for those remaining!
Charles
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Gordon
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Post by Gordon »

There is however one big difference with a Laser, they have an unstayed mast which allows the sail to rotate
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Post by Gordon »

Sorry guys, I pressed the wrong key and posted the message before I'd finished...but to continue

There is however one big difference between us and a Laser rig, they have an unstayed mast which allows the sail to rotate, even past 90 degrees. Which I believe is what is required to make the technique work properly.
We just get a very twisty sail when we do that because the lower section hits the shrouds.

Regards
Gordon
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