How often do you renew rigging?

[Jaycb]

I was wondering how often the regular sailors here renew their boat's bridle wires, forestay & shrouds. On your advice I changed all mine after I bought my boat as I didn't know the history of any of it. I've sailed with it all for two seasons now and am just unsure if I should trust my present setup for another season.
I guess what I'm really asking is: in the absence of any obvious fraying, is there a cutoff period after which it's considered prudent to replace rigging?
Thanks.

[Steve Willis]

Various people have given me advice over the last few years.

Salt water sailing and leaving a boat in a slat atmosphere will increase corrosion. Every winter I wash all the rigging thoroughly and keep it in the warm to dry for a week and then spray it. Despite finding no fraying or apparent corrosion last winter I was very embarassed to have a shroud go on my way to the start of the first race at the SSC TT last year - saved by Bob Carter's immediate production of a spare set of shrouds and his assistance to get it all up again.

On average I would think that we have 2-3 shroud or forestay failures a year out of about 35 cats at the club - mainly I think because they are not replaced often enough. I don't think I have seen a break other than at the thimble ends - indicating corrosion is nearly always the cause rather than stress.

I am coming to the view that 4-5 years seems reasonable if care is taken gving an annual clean and spray but I know others recommend 2-3 years for serious sailing. But a lot will depend on the local conditions in which the boat is stored as much as when it is sailed.

I too would like to see what others have to say.

[Jaycb]

Hi Steve,
I'm surprised you get as many failures as you do. My cat is kept right by the sea and is left rigged from April to October, so it does get a fair bit of salt air. I try to minimise risk by adding a couple of loops of dynema in parallel with the forestay strop as advised in an artcle here.
As much as anything else it'd be good to know what the accepted wisdom is from the point of view of insurance - could a claim for damage caused by a falling mast be rejected if the owner couldn't prove he'd replaced his rigging at reasonable intervals?

[Bob Carter]

Hi
I used to sail my boats a lot - I think more than anyone in the class. This at all the opens and almost all other weekends at Grafham. My mast was always up - unless the boat was on a trailer. I found I had to replace the old 3mm shrouds every 2 years. They almost always fail adjacent to the crimped ferule and usually at the top by the hounds. If you want to be frugal and if you take your mast down fairly often a fairly safe way to do it is to inspect the shroud condition by the ferules regularly. Replace both shrouds as soon as one strand has broken in either shroud. Never replace one shroud by itself - the other one is likely to be in the same condition. Since we moved production to South Africa the shrouds were switched to 4mm plastic coated material to be common with the Dart 18. All spares from Windsport will be this size and they should last much much longer. I have not heard of any failures to date - so Erling, Gordon Goldstone, Nick Dewhirst, Chris Black, etc will all have shrouds that are 3.5 years old (has anyone had one break guys?).
In my experience the forestay never fails - I have never had to change one. The strop is a different matter and frequently can fail exacerbated by the abuse it can get from the furling gear. If you use the dyeema loop as an insurance policy this covers it. I just used to sail until the strop broke. The dyeema loop would hold the mast up if it did and so I would replace it on failure. New boats again have the strop made of 4mm material and so will spares bought from Windsport. These should last longer but they are very stiff.
If your mast falls down in the dinghy park and causes damage to another boat it is clearly you or your insurance who should pay as it was not the other guys fault. Provided you keep your boat in good condition it should never happen. I was catamaran fleet captain at Grafham for 17 years and I saw lots of such incidents. They were usually caused by:
1) the whole boat turning over due to not being properly tied down to ground anchors (you need 2 - one under the centre of each beam) and the roppes need to be tight to prevent any tendancy of the boat to rock.
2) the shackels working loose. All the shackels involved in the rigging need to be realy tight - tightened with a shackel key - finger tight is no good.
It is rare that the shrouds fail when the boat is not being sailed.
Cheers
Bob

[Martin Searle]

Folks,

On my boat I have had a few dismastings since 1993, here are a few reasons for them:

1) Crimped end of a side shroud, usually the one at the top (x2 or 3 of those)

2) I've had the forestay strop go as well with no string to prevent it from causing the mast to fall

3) The main hound shackle has also failed, I think the shrouds had arranged themselves as to create a side force on one side of the shackle and pulled one side of the pin out. Pretty impressive the bend in one side of the shackle.

4) The bridle shackle has also failed for much the same reason as 3.

My conclusions for reasons for failure is mostly me not double checking everything before putting the mast up, 3 & 4 definately caused by this. Also not checking the wear and tear before attaching the shrouds. But having said that one of the dismastings happened during the mid season when the mast had been up for several months (1 & 2). So these days I double check everything and replace any shroud with a broken strand before putting the mast up.

Martin S.

[Jaycb]

Thanks Bob, Martin - very useful info. I think I'll continue with my old stuff for another season but buy a new set of wires to keep handy just in case. It sounds like the newer, thicker stuff is proving very reliable.

[Mike1683]

I was wondering how often the regular sailors here renew their boat's bridle wires, forestay & shrouds.

Usually shortly after they've broken, but that's been on the other boat which I'll not mention again here. In the list I'd include trapeze lines, as having had it happen in the middle of the Solent watching you boat sail away from the drink due to trapeze line snapping was a bit of a pain.

A big factor must be whether the mast is left rigged or not, as 1683 lives on on her trailer on the front garden I thinking the rigging will last a few years longer than the set I had on her when she was rigged at a club. - I did notice when she was at Calshot that the side of the mast foot wore very quickly. I assume the wind maybe was swirling around the corner of a nearby building and caused the mast to rotate back and forth and ware the foot away. Once I spotted the small pile of metal shavings I used to leave the mast with a pin through it to stop it moving when not being sailed.

How many post to graduate from Able Seaman?

[Jaycb]

Mike,
That's a good bit of advice re. the mast-foot pin, I'll make sure I do that if I rig the mast.
That trapeze tale sounds bloody scary.

[Andrew Hannah]

How many post to graduate from Able Seaman?

Interesting question. I can't offer much advice on your rigging. But rest assured that if you write rubbish as I do, then you will quickly rise through the ranks. In fact, it is very similar to the Royal Navy, on which this system is based!

I have sometimes thought how we might change the system. Perhaps based on length of ownership, having ever been on Sprint Association committee, organised an open meeting, local class rep, been on the stand at the dinghy show, or helped in other ways......

[Robert]

Interesting question. I can't offer much advice on your rigging. But rest assured that if you write rubbish as I do, then you will quickly rise through the ranks. In fact, it is very similar to the Royal Navy, on which this system is based!

I have sometimes thought how we might change the system. Perhaps based on length of ownership, having ever been on Sprint Association committee, organised an open meeting, local class rep, been on the stand at the dinghy show, or helped in other ways......

What absolute rubbish!

[Andrew Hannah]

What absolute rubbish![/b]

Robert! Watch your words! Whilst you have scrambled egg on the peak of your cap, I must advise that I am a "flag rank" officer. That's because I'm a commode!

[Robert]

Sorry Sir No - apology retracted as I've just been promoted to commode too...

[Martin Searle]

Sorry Sir No - apology retracted as I've just been promoted to commode too...

Well it looks like Andrew doesn't have far to go before he gets his first admiralship!

Martin S. (Commod(or)e) )

[Bob Carter]

How many post to graduate from Able Seaman?

Interesting question. I can't offer much advice on your rigging. But rest assured that if you write rubbish as I do, then you will quickly rise through the ranks. In fact, it is very similar to the Royal Navy, on which this system is based! .

Yes - Gilbert and Sullivan wrote a song about it - look

When I was a lad I served a term
As office boy to an attorney's firm
I cleaned the windows and I swept the floor
And I polished up the handle of the big front door
I polished up that handle so carefully
That now I am the Ruler of the Queen's Navy

As office boy I made such a mark
That they gave me the post of a junior clerk
I served the writs with a smile so bland
And I copied all the letters in a big round hand
I copied all the letters in a hand so free
That now I am the Ruler of the Queen's Navy

In serving writs I made such a name
That an articled clerk I soon became
I wore clean collars and a brand-new suit
For the Pass Examination at the Institute
And that Pass Examination did so well for me
That now I am the Ruler of the Queen's Navy

Of legal knowledge I acquired such a grip
That they took me into the partnership
And that junior partnership I ween
Was the only ship that I ever had seen
But that kind of ship so suited me
That now I am the Ruler of the Queen's Navy

I grew so rich that I was sent
By a pocket borough into Parliament
I always voted at my Party's call
And I never thought of thinking for myself at all
I thought so little, they rewarded me
By making me the Ruler of the Queen's Navy

Now, landsmen all, whoever you may be
If you want to rise to the top of the tree
If your soul isn't fettered to an office stool
Be careful to be guided by this golden rule
Stick close to your desks and never go to sea
And you all may be Rulers of the Queen's Navy

It's much the same system
Bob

[Andrew Hannah]

Bob, that's wonderful. And so appropriate.

It must be from HMS Pinafore. I know wasn't Pirates of Penzance, which we did at school. I was casted to be one of the ladies. But I was thrown out because my voice broke.

Congratulations to Carsington for producing their first commode: Robert de Merrie-England. I can't believe he's level with me. I'm going to count up his posts!