Dart 15 Forums

Phil wrote:

Hi everyone,
Thinking of going topable this year,but,not sure. Nead some hints which I know I will get lots of.
Is the boat fairly stable,does it make the car top heavy.
How heavy will it be anyway.I have seen so many differant verations in the weight over the last few months.
I have roof rails,so what sort of roof rack should I be looking at.
Should I stick to the trailer.
Lots of hints and infomation will be greatfully reiceved.
Cheers all, Phil

Dartful Codger 3 replied:

Certainly you can transport your Dart 15 this way, after all, they were designed with this in mind.
However, you do need to bear the following points in mind:-
1 Each hull weighs 33 Kg, so that's 66Kg for starters up there .
2 Because of the flexing in the roof rack, you should keep each hull to the outside where it is better supported, putting the mast and trolley down the middle - a 2-piece hopefully , plus beams, unless you have a large estate car
where you can put them inside .
3 Use wide webbing straps with ratchets to secure the hulls, as they spread the load better, and you can apply tension more easily . Ropes and knots have a habit of working loose over a long journey . If possible, you should use a rope on the front as extra security if you can attach it under the bumper, perhaps to the towing hook/loop . In this case, leaving the bridle wires on would provide a useful way to attach the rope .
4 Of course, you will also have removed the trampoline to transport your boat in this way, and it all takes time , not to mention having to do the reverse once you arrive at your destination, and this job alone can be quite strenuous, unless you have a friend to help . In any case, you will certainly need help to off-load the hulls from the roof-rack .
5 Having a trailer is by far the best, the safest and easiest option in my opinion, since you can load it all on your own by simply taking the mast down . OK you can only travel at 60mph with a trailer, but sensibly you wouldn't travel much faster if it was all up on the roof, and it is debatable whether the extra windage is any more economical than towing a low trailer behind you .
To summarise, in my opinion for what it is worth, there are only 2 advantages in car topping :-
A You don't have to buy a trailer.
B You save on car ferries .
Since you mention you already have a trailer, I would simply say USE IT , especially if it also has a box where you can put all your other bits and pieces - tiller bars, rudders, rigging, sails, spares etc.
Cheers Paul Smith 1961

Bob replied:

Hi phil - it's much easier to use the trailer.
cheers
bob
PS any good cartoons in the making? Last years Pentewan one was a classic. How about one for Whitstable? You could do one with hundreds of "Foggies"

Sean W-B replied:

Despite the Laser Centre advertising the D15 as car toppable there are a few things to think of before putting it on the roof putting your boat on the roof.

Apparently more roofracks come off cars than boats come off roofracks. I had one near disaster (see below) when I inadvertantly overloaded a roof rack with a Laser and it parted company with the car on one side. If the sailing club had been 10 miles further down the road...

Have a quick look at the owners manual for your car. Most have a max roof rack load of 75 kg (some even less, it was 40 kg on one car I had).

So assume roof bars weighs 5kg
hulls weigh 66kg

That leaves 4kg for the mast and the beams before technically the car is overloaded.

The other thing to check is max weight the roof rack will take. My old roof rack broke under the weight of a Laser on top of an Astra. Afterwards I realised it had a 40 kg limit! OOPS! thankfully it stayed attached on one side (just) and the damage to the car was not too bad (Nothing a wrench and a bit paint could not disguise).

Best bet is to buy the Thule roof bars. They are more expensive, but are strong, and normally you only need to buy fitting when you change car.

Some cars do have 100kg max load, they tend to be the estate cars with rails and Vauxhall Astras (they have funny roof slots). Nick Dewhirst used to move his Dart around very securely on his Audi Estate, and had a very organised and effienct method of securing it using the Thule load stops.

So, yes they are car toppable on some cars, but if you have a trailer, it is quicker and easier to load, and (assuming you have a box) you have somewhere to put the sail and rudders, wet suits, bouyancy aid, carry cot, childrens toys, cornflakes etc.etc.

By the way, even my Laser complete with roof rack (broken or unbroken), trolley and spars was over 75 kg.

Bob replied:

Hi Sean,
It's good to hear from you. How's the appetite?
Cheers
Bob
PS are you coming to the Nationals @ Whitstable?

Phil replied:

Thanks Guy,s
Some very good infomation about going toples,I think I'll stick to the trailer,too many problems putting it up there.
Bob,got your info ref cartoons,["LOTS OF FOGGY'S"]Wash your mouth out,don't you want anyone to turn up?.

Sean w-b replied:

Surpised you remembered me (and forgot the mobile phone!)Appetite finally caught up with me. I got fat! Now slimmer but will never eat like I did at Abersoch again.

Only sailed once last year, but looking to sail more this year. Looking at moving the Dart to another club as cats are no longer welcome at KGSC. Mine is allowed to stay (with unfriendlines from some quarters), but no others are allowed to join. The very long list of pathetic reasons given actually became quite funny. Everything from 'if the wind blows the only way to turn it is to hit the bank' (I have never hit the bank trying to turn - hit once after capsizing front over back - yes front over back) through to 'we have not got launching facilities' (so how did I manage to launch it then?). Most common reasons given was are is 'just too fast' or the normal 'cats are too dangerous'.

Problem I have is where to move it too. Living near the bottom of the M11, the obvious places are Grafham or Marconi. Problem is I need somewhere that consistently races on a Saturday. It may also help my cause if it was somewhere the family could have a day out, so Whitstable is looking favourites.

Any other thoughts?

As for the Nationals, it is on my 'to do list' for this year. (As it was last year,and the year before and the year before). If the Dart is at Whitstable, then there can be no excuses.

Hopefully see you this year
Sean

New email seanwb@hotmail.com

Bob replied:

Hi Sean,
Thanks for the reply - it's good to hear from you.
Yes - Whitstable or Marconi would be a good choice.Thorpe Bay might be another option. They do a lot of fun sailing. Most Clubs do race on Sundays.
Hope to see you in the summer.
Cheers
Bob

John Lunt replied:

I've just bought a D15 and brought it home on the roof of my Mondeo estate. Used Paddy Hopkirk cross bars on the Foor existing roof rails. Acording to Ford manual it's within limits. Seemed stable at 60mph. Driving 120m to Anglesey this weekend so will see how assembly time goes. Main reason for roof topping is it allows me to tow caravan to great sailing places without having to camp or B+B or stay in hotels. i.e. lowest cost and maximum flexibility.
I have considered a narrow trailer say 3 ft wide with a 300mm wide box in the centre for beams, rudders, sails, tramp etc. Masts will need to be tied to chassis. This will cost me about ?200 to build I think.
Any ideas how to remove water from a "sealed" top mast section? Is this a common problem? It seems like negative bouyancy. Is foam filling an idea?
John.

Bob replied:

Leaking top sections of masts are VERY rare. The bottom section is quite common (due to the Aluminuim inner section wobbling in the lower half of the mast causing water to leak in around the join). This happens even when it rains on an upright mast.
If you are sure that the top section is leaking the only way is to find the leak and seal it. If you have to drill a small hole to do this make sure that it is sealed afterwards.
I suggest that you drill a small hole in the middle of the top plate. Drain the mast section. Find the hole by blowing in the hole and looking for the leak. Get one person to blow and the other to listen for a hiss (or to paint on soap solution and look for bubbles). When you have found the leak dry off the mast and seal both holes with clear silicone sealant.
Best of Luck
Bob Carter
If you have the mast with the open Aluminium extrusion section at the join, most of us have filled that with builders foam as it fills up when capsized.