Jib sheeting [nick]

[Archive]

nick wrote:

When going up wind I sheet the jib in tight and use the woolies. The woolies on the mainsail seem hard to get set if the woolies on the jib are flying. Am I doing something wrong. Also where do you place the woolies on the main.

[Archive]

Bob replied:

No when sailing with the jib it is not posible to get the wollies on the main to fly properly. I just watch those on the jib. I'll be interested what others say.
Regards
Bob

[Charles]

I've resurected this thread as I think it's a good question & I remember Bob saying in another thread about setting the jib first.

My question is, how do you set the jib with reasonable accuracy soon after the tack?

As you power up the main won't this will tighten the jib luff & close the slot?

[Brian Phipps]

Tricky little question that may have a number of solutions. Do you set the jib first and then the main or the main first followed by the jib?

Starting with the basics.
1) A boat with a jib will not sail as close to the wind as a single hander all things being equal.
2) Small as the jib is, it is it's own small power house and very much a turbo charger for the mainsail, ramming air over the leeward side of the mainsail.

To get the best power out of your boat both sails need to be workig together, a over tensioned jib that is flat with a closed leach, does not match a mainsail that is full and fast.
Both sails are dynamic (they can be changed) to reflect the result you want given the wind speed and angle you are sailing to the wind.

So what does that mean?? As a starting point:-
Light winds I would suggest set the jib as a power house (not to tight) with the role of driving air over the mainsail. Sail to the jib tell tales and squeeze the jib sheet tension up as the boat gets going and the mainsail can be sheeted up / flattened, remebering to reverse that if speed or wind strength drops off. Proberbly the top mainsail tell tale should stall on the windward side when the windward jib tell tales stall.

Medium winds
Sheet the jib firmly sail the boat on the jib telltales looking for every opportuity to tension the mainsheet , which will tension the jib luff almost automatically and take the hight.

Strong winds .
Interesting?? if you have to drop the traveller because of over powering, you will proberbly need to open the jib slot and that can be done with jib sheet tension but also by jib sheeting position on the trampoline slide which keeps the foot tight but allows the leach open if you move it back. It is likely that the front third of the jib may be back winding so you are effectivly sailing on the mainsail with the back 2/3rds of the jib which is not back winding acting as slot control to force air over he back of the main. In this case you are not sailing on the jib luff tell tales but by feel as it is unlikely the top mainsail telltale will be full operational.

The success is in the expertimenting against other sailors to see how you perform in a training enviroment. It is likely you will refine your settings to suit the other conditions that effect your performance.

Good sailing
Brian Phipps
Windsport Coach

[Jim Coleman]

Hi there,
Before tacking I ease the main and cleat it. This loosens the forestay and jib luff (and tightens jib sheet). Then just after head to wind and loosening the jib sheet on the old side I then pull it as tight as possible on the new side. Next I sit out and tension the main so the blocks are at/near their final position for the wind strength. This tightens the forestay and jib luff which eases the jib sheet. So I again pull the jib sheet in very tightly while manoeuvring as the boat gets under way so that the jib telltales are flying. Later I will adjust the main and jib sheets as necessary.
Just after tacking I am more interested in getting the boat moving fast than worrying about the absolute correct tack angle, jib and main sheet settings. They come naturally after the boat gathers way. And while sailing upwind I use the jib telltales and telltales on the leech of the mainsail.
Hope this helps.

[Robert]

I've resurected this thread as I think it's a good question & I remember Bob saying in another thread about setting the jib first.

My question is, how do you set the jib with reasonable accuracy soon after the tack?

As you power up the main won't this will tighten the jib luff & close the slot?

This is an interesting topic Charles. Should we infer from this that you might be travelling to Devon in May? I hope so - keep on sprinting! Just to whet your appetite, I found these links on the NDYC website:
http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/NDYClub/S ... 27June2008
http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/NDYClub/S ... 28June2008
http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/NDYClub/S ... 29June2008
Hope to see you there!

[Charles]

Robert

Well, a small, but perfectly formed cohort of Team Halifax is thinking seriously about making the trip, though I think the boat race in the bar may show their area of expertise... even if it has to be with southern softies beer!

We have changed our club SIs so we can get points for helm (or boat under any configuration) rather than for the boat on a specific PY. That way we can choose when to Sport. The reality is that Sport mode isn't competitive on our small water (well Robin L hasn't been up here so I'm making a bit of an assumption!), but we are thinking of doing one race per week, probably Wed night in Sport mode so we don't look like complete fools "how do you put this nappy thing on?" if we do venture out to NDYC.

I have to say though that my main reason for asking is with my 2-up head on. As you might have worked out from reports Elenya hates loosing so I can't afford to trust to luck!!

Thanks for the short cuts... it doesn't look nearly as windy as the tales have suggested...

[Kevin Dutch]

I've been to HSC and i did'nt think that it would be possibly to get out on the wire there.

[Andrew Hannah]

Robert

Well, a small, but perfectly formed cohort of Team Halifax is thinking seriously about making the trip, though I think the boat race in the bar may show their area of expertise... even if it has to be with southern softies beer!

"The boat race in the bar". That takes me back a bit. To the uninitiated, it works like this:

There are two teams of six or so fellows with brimming pints of beer in their hands. The leader drinks his pint in full and places his upturned tankard on his head. The second in line then starts his pint and does the same, and so on. The team that finishes first is the winner. There was usually a great cheer if someone inverted his tankard on his head, whilst there was still some beer left in it.

The trouble with this game is that everyone's belly is already full of wallop before the game begins. Some blokes could down a pint in a few seconds, but it took me longer.

[Bob Carter]

I've resurected this thread as I think it's a good question & I remember Bob saying in another thread about setting the jib first.

My question is, how do you set the jib with reasonable accuracy soon after the tack?

As you have been sailing for hopefully some minutes (+) before hand in the conditions of the day you know approximately how tight the jib was on the previous tack. So you pull the jib quickly to about that much as soon as you tack and cleat it. As Brian says this should not be too tight, especially in light winds and never(?) as tight as you can as this is generally too tight - even in strong winds. You then set the main. once you have done this and picked up speed you may need to trim the jib tension to fine tune the trim.

When you get confident that you can do all this quickly it is worth trying to leave the jib cleated on the wrong side (previous side) until after the boat has gone through the wind. The boat tacks much quicker but it is only worthwhile if you can uncleat the jib and set it on the new side very quickly - otherwise the backed jib stops you dead.
Cheers
Bob
PS I am amused to hear that Andrew is so well versed in the drinking games. Perhaps he should come to the Nationals prepared to give us a demonstration.
PPS I hear that the master of Bar Games (Jim Jeffrey) will be in attendance and he has bought a boat (1784) so he can take part.....

[Robert]

Robert

Well, a small, but perfectly formed cohort of Team Halifax is thinking seriously about making the trip.... The reality is that Sport mode isn't competitive on our small water...

I really admire your team's enthusiasm to try something new, Charles. If you and/or any of the others can get away I'm sure you'd be very welcome to come along to Carsington of a Sunday to get in some practice on longer legs of courses. I understand there will be a few of us there next Sunday. Then you wouldn't have to pack your boat on the trailer for Grafham because it would be all ready for the following weekend ! My Sunday sail always seems to begin with a 2hr drive followed by putting up the mast. It's a bit of a grind but always worth it, I find.
You might even get a crack at one of the top sailors this coming weekend, plus seeing some interesting sails in action...

[Steve Willis]

So that is where the orange rudders have gone. I heard at the Dinghy Show that Dean Abra had sold 1784.

Steve

[Charles]

Kevin

You were up here on a light breeze weekend, it's often possible to get out on the wire, just not for very long!!

Bob / Brian / Jim

Thanks for the advice, I will learn you words by heart & see if I can apply any of them !!

Robert

It's quite tempting to pop down to CSC occasionally, though 6 day-sails equates to annual family membership inc. storage for the whole Watson fleet at HxSC, so it's not a cheap option & I'd be travelling a similar distance to you... you must be maaaaaaaaad !!

[Robert]

Charles

Unfortunately Carsington or Draycote are my nearest options. I tried membership last year and seriously overpaid for the amount of sailing I did, a situation exacerbated by the rubbish weather we had (too much wind or too little). This year I am day sailing again and looking for getting onto the water once a month if I can and preferably once a fortnight, including events. Strangely this time of year seems to provide more opportunities than the middle of the year when the events are further away. This is why I like the winter traveller series, especially as there is no accommodation to be arranged (tent).

Incidentally I am sure that there was a "two up" entry at the Sport Nationals last year. If I'm not mistaken you might come under pressure from your crew to make an entry...

[Charles]

Oooohhhhhh, now Robert, you must have been intercepting Steve T & my emails !

We were discussing 2-up & trapeze, my view is that 2-up with a Trap should sail off 916 as I can't imagine getting any significant benefit from the trap with 2-up, either because the crew is so small (Elenya) & needs help from helm to get out there or the crew rarely gets out on the wire (teenage crew).

I'm going to be mean & not tell her Sport allows 2-up !

Fair winds.