Dart 15 Forums

Roger Somerville wrote:

Help please.
We have been sailing two up and using the wire. Having now more or less master the winds if not all the skills I wish to learn from others and so we want to come south and try a little racing. Am I right in assuming we would be classed as "Sailed 2 up (with main & jib)" and that the trapeze would need removing? If so what is the PY? Reading the traveller series info I see only Standard PY916, Sprint PY882 and Sting PY860 formats,where would 2 up lie? And finally what is Sting format?

I have removed the jib pullies and tie off the sheet direct to the sail, I assume this will need reverting.
Thanks Roger

Bob replied:

Hi Roger,
2-up boats sail on the standard format at a PY of 916 provided that you do not use the trapeze. If you use the trapeze (1-up or 2-up) then it classes as Sport mode on PY882. It's pretty sensible. If you are 2-up it is easy to keep the boat upright without using the trapeze even in a gale and the jib makes up for the extra weight.
On the jib sheets you are allowed to remove the carbine hook (the big clip that clips on the sail and bangs the mast) and to use thinner rope for the sheets but you must keep the pullies, etc.
The Sting was a Dart 15 hull with a taller mast and a bigger mylar sail which the Laser Centre marketed some 14 years ago or so for a little while. They were not very successful and hardly any of them remain (the sails seem to self distruct in about 10 years).
We look forward to meeting you on the circuit.
Regards
Bob

nick replied:

Hi
mainly out of interest, is the sport mode defined by use of trapeeze? or use of two sails and single crew? can it mean therefore. one sail one crew use of trapeeze = sport mode.

Secondly is it possible to get the class rules on the web site? I hope to get along to some of the events this year and would like to have all the bits in the right place. Starting with the hubcaps on the road trailer!!!

Also we will be having a couple of open cat events at pevensey this year. They will set a shorter course ( for the Dragoon charter squad )which Sprints can sail on. I will put details up when the dates are confirmed

Bob replied:

Not exactly but as soon as you use the trapeze you are in Sport mode and have to sign on as PY882. As soon as you use the jib when single handed sailing you are also in sport mode. You can be one up or two up in Sport mode - thus it is the use of trapeze which causes a 2-up boat to be in Sport mode.

I thought we had put the rules on the web site - it is an omission that was not intended. I'll send them to Jonathan to get them added, but it might take a week or two because Jonathan has got a lot on at present. If you send me your EMail address I can send them to you ahead of time if you are keen to get them.

Regards

Bob Carter (Events Secretary)

Charles replied:

In section 10 of the rules, drawing 9 (page 21) the original jib config is shown without pullies, though admittedly using the single eye as fairlead & fixed clam cleat jammer.

I've never been too sure why Sport mode (Sprint as was) employed the pullies, it's not as if there's much pull from such a piddly little jib, or am I not trying hard enough? Can someone enlighten me?

Also, I think that pulleys flailing about are a bit of a safety hazard. I've moved down in size to minimise the risk of a black eye (to me or anyone else).

So I think Roger could sail without pullies, certainly if he has the old style clam cleats (they were still on ?Sticks & Stones? when I bought her).

Similarly, I don't really see why he shouldn't sail legally without pullies even if he has the swivel block & cam cleat arrangement, as he isn't sailing Sport mode, but IS using legal gear, all be it a slight mix of options. I haven?t noticed a rule which says you can?t ?mix ?n? match?.

I suppose one could argue there might be a VERY slight advantage pulling less rope in when sheeting the jib, but certainly not enough to change the PY. The ubiquitous ?bad tack? would easily put pay to any advantage gained over the course of a race.

The alternative to say if he isn't sailing Sport mode then he should have the old arrangement would obviously be silly.

Ruminations would be much appreciated.

Bob replied:

Hi Charles - yes you are right.
Early Sparks which had a jib conversion kit bought later got a different sheeting sytem with no pullies and flat clam cleats on the decks. The system was not very good (in fact the cleats hardly worked) and the Laser Centre introduced the current sysetem in the late 1980s. It is our policy to not make old designs illegal so the old kit system without 2:1 puchase is still class legal.
Now when it was proposed (and approved) that the carbine hook could be dispensed with and thinner sheets used we only voted on it being applied to the new system. So strictly speaking you cannot mix these options with the old system (which had 8mm rope, no pullies, no carbine hook, and no cam cleats on the blocks).
I don't want to give the impression that we are excessively pernickety. In reality we are not into arguing about little details which make no differece to performance. If someone chose to protest I think that the above situation is correct.
Regards
Bob

Charles replied:

Thanks Bob, I knew you'd have a good answer to this!

Roger replied:

Thanks guys, all alot clearer.

Roger