Dart 15 Forums

Bob wrote:

Are you going to the Dinghy Show Alexandra Palace this weekend? We have a fully manned stand* with a Sprint 15 with the Out of Africa Graphics. We will be taking names for free Sprint 15 demos near you.
It's a great place to see what's happening, have a chat AND to buy cheap sailing kit. So if you need a wet suit, boots, life jacket, etc you can't do better than come and stock up for the season.
Cheers
Bob
PS even champion poser Tom Gall is on the stand - but then so is his dad, Ray, Erling Holmberg, and many more. You won't be able to get a word in edgeways!!!

Bob replied:

Many thanks go to the team who manned our stand at the weekend at Alexandra Palace (Bob Carter, Philip Howden, Richard Philpott, Ray Gall, Tom Gall, Erling Holmberg, Robin Leather, Boo Leather, Gordon Goldstone, Nick Dewhirst, Robin Newbold, Paul Craft & Keith Bartlett.
A big thanks go to Brian Phipps (& Paul Chadfield) for getting the boat to Alexandra Palace (despite Brian being out of the Country at the time.
I think we put up a good show.
If you visited the show, we are interested in any comments or thoughts you might have on the show and our stand.
Anything we should do better on next year?
Regards
Bob

Andrew Hannah replied:

I have been racking my brains for a good deal longer than Bob's post yesterday. For a long time, I have been interested in knowing why it is, that someone buys a Dart 16. If they knew better, they would buy a Sprint 15. When people buy their first car, it is invariably a car of the same make, they passed their driving test in. Does the same principle apply to boats?

Marketing by Laser Centre is one thing, but it doesn't explain how interest is converted into a genuine sale. They seem to have an uncanny ability of recognising newcomers into the sport, and then seducing these people into buying a Dart 16. Newcomers are like cash-buyers in the housing market. They don't have a boat to sell, before buying another. If only we could get at these people before anybody else does. I admit I don't have any answers, beyond superficial changes we could make.

But here are a couple. I think photographs of our sailors trapezing in a force 7 is likely to turn off newcomers. The same applies if the boat on the stand, is tilted at 45 degrees. Much better for the boat to be flat, and to have pictures that are less than spectacular.

Another idea might be to encourage our visiting sailors to turn-up at the show in their Sprint 15 sweat shirts (myself included). This would give a message to everyone that we have strength in numbers.

That's my two penneth. What do others think?

Andrew Hannah (1060),

Thorpe Bay Yacht Club.

steve willis replied:

Andrew,

I suspect one factor has been the exposure given to the Dart16 in its original key market - the Sunsail etc fleets abroad.
We have been holidaying on Greek Islands for a number of years and in recent years have seen 16s regularly. They appear to have largely displaced the Hobies - which are much higher to get on and off.

A lot of people nowadays are probably exposed to 16s as their first cats either as part of a sail holiday or watching them and seeing them on the beach.

In addition they are supposedly, in marketing speak, more rugged than fibreglass/gelcoat boats - a point not borne out if you look at the stainless steel strips riveted along the skeg lines of a number of holiday boats we have seen. Anyone who knows what problems you have to do a repair and get a colour match without a brown burn mark on a polyethlyene or similar plastic hull would want to avoid them totally. This is a thing we point out to prospective cat sailors.

Marketing in clubs and on this web site is critical as you suggest. A number of our newer members have gone for Sprint 15s after a lot of discussion with club members about how often they would want to have to depend on a crew being available. Those parents who want to sail with their children or partner just on occasion have gone for the 15 when originally they were thinking of 18s. Hence our 18 fleet has reduced to 7 while our 15 fleet has increased to 16. Mainly they are looking for fun sailing alone and safe sailing when they have a part time crew aboard.

The shows really target existing sailors to a large extent. It is at club level on Open Days or with new members that we can best promote the Sprint 15. I also think you are right about 'angle of dangle' in marketing we should focus on speed, stability and comfort - the trapeze artists (like me on our 18) know what the boats can do.

One thing that would be very useful would be to have a short Association video or DVD that could be shown to prospective or new club members covering the benefits of sailing the Sprint 15 - even down to car topping and simplicity of rigging right through to righting the boat. Any budding cam corder persons out there?

By the way have you seen the DVD set "Le DVD du catamaran de Sport" produced by Mobilis Productions in France it is a superb training aid 5 hours long focussed on everything from basic sailing right through to world race sailing of Tornados and F1s. I was lent it by another member of our club and I bought one through e-bay a week later as it is something you can watch again and again and still learn soemthing each time.

adrian replied:

I have been the sole Dart 15 sailer at my club on the Nothumberland coast for the last couple of years.

The club have gone out and bought 2 new Dart 16's for the coming season. I am going to ask the powers that be why this decision was officially made and if i find out I will let you know.

Unofficially, as the boats are to be used for training/hire the consensus seems to be that they were bought for there hull material.

On a personal note, I don't think we should underestimate the power of the marketing machine that is the Laser centre. Generally it seems that a second hand 15 is a lot cheaper than a 16 yet they still shift them. Now we have a new name there is even more confusion for the newcomer.

On a pound per knot basis we all know that there is nothing like our 15's. We now need to spread the word!

adrian replied:

I think the 15 stand was the most approachable of the cat stands. I went to look at them all (as you do)

The Hurricane team were all sat behind the boat which made them unaproachable.

The Topcat lot seemed a bit "heavy sell" and put me off.

The Spitfire/shadow lot never spoke to me (I stood and watched their video thingy for at least 10 minutes) so that was a potential lost opportunity.

Dart 18 were the next best as they saked me what I sailed, had I tried an 18, if not why not,did I want to try etc but all very comfortably and casual!

Hobie stand never actually seemed to have anyone on it! (as didn't the SL stand which was a bit out on a limb at the end of the rest of the stand)(also I went to the Aruba "table" 4 times to try to speak to someone!)

Generally, I think most of the other boats seemed too technical and there stands with LCD tv's etc made that worse. The 15 stand was simple with clean simple lines. People were on 1 side and at the front of the boat with a mixture of ages and looked approachable.

I do exhibitions so notice these things! A bit of a saddo I am!

Anyway, great day and a great stand.

Generally,

Bob replied:

Hi Adrian,
Many thanks for your kind comments. It makes it all worthwhile.
Regards
Bob

nick replied:

I was going to buy a 16 but Brian Phipps and Bob advised me to get a 15. A choice I do not regret and have enjoyed every minute of the boat and association.
For marketing purposes we should make much of stability and the Lads and Dads (Substitute gender as appt) value of the boat. I moved over from Nat 12 which are very unstable to have young ones on board, with a 15 I know I can manage it on my own therefore the crew is relatively safe. A 16 appears to have everything, many modes, kite ,trapeeze, but the bomb proof hull makes it heavy to lug around on your own. And right on your own
I see the 15 as a good intro for the very young into cat sailing with the chance to move into the Dragoon squad when old enough , Dad then gets his boat back = no loss to the class.
For a single handed blasting boat the choice of a 15 is obvious as Andrew says no photos required.