Dart 15 Forums

Chris wrote:

I'd like to start by giving a great big thank you to Erling, you really saved our day!

So after making my mistakes last time, going to the IOW when it was misty, without compass chart or phone, this time I decided to go a little further (to Shanklin) - with all the above equipment!

We left LOSSC with a F5-6, which almost made us turn back as soon as we'd left! Reefing the jib and letting out a lot of traveller, we strived on and fortunately the wind calmed down to a F4-5 as we cornered the IOW.

Unfortunately, this is where my Chart finished - which caused two problems. Firstly, we went over Bembridge Ledge where the currents hit the ledge and shoot upwards, causing havoc to the waves - and my 15! Secondly, we weren't really sure what Shanklin looked like from the sea at distance! But with style and confidence, we arrived and I phoned Erling to say "we're here!"

...20 minutes later, and he hadn't turned up (altho he only lives 200 yards away!). Asking a passer by revealed we were in Yaverlin, not Shanklin! Whilst not knowing whether to laugh or curse - Erling turned up to the rescue, realising that we weren't where I had said we were! Hero!

The next day, there was no wind what-so-ever, and we couldn't leave the beach! Managed to get a tow by a local into deeper waters, where we praddled and hoped that we'd get into the tidal streams. Very slowly we made it around the corner of the island. Heading home (slowly) I'd just handed over the helm and was laying down on the tramp, head on our bag of clothes, when my better half screamed "Chris Chris CHRIS!"...

There was a bang, and before I knew it the mast had fallen down across the boat! S#!T

Fortunately nobody was hurt, it was quite calm (a few big waves only), and we managed to wave down a nearby yacht - who threw us a line and towed us into wind while we sorted ourselves out. We pulled down the mainsail, pulled out the jib from the water and lashed the mast to the boat.

The yacht had called Inshore Rescue who kindly towed us back to LOSSC, where races had just finished and we had a nice crowd watching us arrive!

It turns out the forestay shackle broke. We think it was a weakness in the thread, which must have sheared off, which in turn caused the shackle to bend open - not something easily done! We were so very fortunate that it happened then and not the day before, when there were very few boats and much more wind and waves!

Erling: I was going to call you to thank you for your kindness etc, but with the following madness and 2 weeks away on a training course, it kinda slipped my mind, sorry!

Moral of this story, urm... maybe a VHF radio + training course in case we aren't so lucky next time?

Chris.
...where every outing seems to become a story!

Bob replied:

Hi Chris
It is very rare that shackles break. What usually happens is they are not tightened properly. The leads to the pin working loose over time. When the pin eventually comes out of the thread, the force when sailing on the now un supported cantelever pin, bends open the shackle. So it is very important that all the shackles in the rigging are tightened using a shackle key. This is important even when the boat is not being sailed. The number of masts that fall over in the winter because one of the shackles works loos is incredible - a falling mast does a lot of damage in the dinghy park.
The second biggest cause of masts falling down is the forestay strop breaking. If you are going to undertake long cruises away from rescue it would be worth adding "a bit of string" as an insurance policy - as shown in our latest magazine. The guys at Thorpe bay who do a lot of cruising across the Thames Estuary have fitted thicker 4mm rigging Shrouds and forestay strop to be safe. Our new boats (and spares from Windsport) now come with 4mm rigging.
Happy Cruising
Bob

steve willis replied:

Lucky!!!

In addition to tightening shackle I use rings (like the ones on the chain plate pins) to prevent the shackle pin coming undone (or easily being undone by the mischevious). Quite a few shackle pins have a hole in the head of the pin - but those that do not I drill with a 3mm hole. Check the pin head has enough 'meat' or get new ones that do.

If you wind the ring onto the shackle first you can then, with a bit of fiddling about get the ring to go through the hole in the pin. The net effect is that the shackle pin cannot turn more than a few degrees.

I use the rings that are about 10mm in diameter and can usually be purchased in packs of 4-5 from most chandlers.

I then tape up the pin and ring as well with electrical tape.

Chris replied:

Is this the same principle as buying that expensive wire I saw next to the shackle I bought? I think the idea's the same, you use some wire to tie it to the main body of the shackle?

It was about ?6 for a turns on a spindle - surely some single core electrical wire would do a similar job?

My shopping list from Windsport includes:
1 02002 - - Downwind streamer 6.09
1 02052 - - Forestay strop shackle hounds (1/4 shackle) 4.48
1 02060 - - Burgee 7.48
4 02079 - - Traveller wheel (each) - (trav car) 5.36
1 02118 - - Jib clew carbine hook SP15 / D18 8.49
2 04002 - - Shroud wire SP15 43.36
1 04004 - - Forestay strop SP15 10.26
1 05017 - - Downhaul 3 X purchase System SP15 42.16

A few questions; isn't that burgee a bit expensive? Is it a good idea to replace the traveller wheels - they don't seem too bad but i heard the wear quickly, or is that something similar in the rudder assembly? Are plastic covered Shroud wires any good? Should I be spending more on a chunkier Forestay strop? And finally, is the downhaul much improved over the old 2 x system? Recently i've been having great troubles getting the sail hooked and unhooked at the top

I also have a Cat Hawk wind indicator. My first one fell off during it's first outing - so i'm not sure I want to fit the (free) replacement for fear it's going to happen again. Does anyone use these successfully?

Thanks, and sorry for all the questions - it's in preparation for the Nationals...!

Bob replied:

Hi Chris
If you ask 6 people you will get 6 views. For what it is worth the following are my comments on your list:

It was about ?6 for a turns on a spindle - surely some single core electrical wire would do a similar job? MAY BE. I PERSONALLY HAVE NEVER HAD A WELL TIGHTENED SHACKLE COME UNDONE (I DO THEM UP REALLY TIGHT) SO I HAVE NOT WIRED UP ANY OF MY SHACKLES.

My shopping list from Windsport includes:
1 02002 - - Downwind streamer 6.09 YES - THESE ARE EXPENSIVE BUT I THINK THEY ARE REALLY GOOD & VERY HELPFUL TO SAILING WELL. DO NOT FIX IT DIRECT TO THE WIND WAND. FIT EITHER A WIRE RING OR CABLE TIE ON THE WIND WAND & THEN PUT THE WIND INDICATOR ON THE RING.
1 02052 - - Forestay strop shackle hounds (1/4 shackle) 4.48 YES - IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU BROKE YOURS.
1 02060 - - Burgee 7.48 I THINK THIS IS THE BIG BURGEE. MOST OF US USE A SMALLER BURGEE WHICH IS ABOUT ?6.50 FROM MOST CHANDLERS. MANY SAILORS DON'T SAIL WITH A BURGEE & SWEAR IT IS NOT NECESSARY. I WOULD NOT SAIL WITHOUT ONE - ESPECIALLY WHEN SAILING UNA-RIG. IT IS VERY HELPUL FOR DOWNWIND SAILING WHEN THE WINDWAND INDICATOR IS IN THE WIND SHADDOW OF THE BOAT & SAILOR
4 02079 - - Traveller wheel (each) - (trav car) 5.36 YES BUT ONLY REPLACE THEM IF THE EXISTING ONES FEEL ROUGH (THEY GET FLATS ON THEM). DONT FORGET YOU HAVE TO TAKE THE BOAT APART TO REPLACE THEM. IF THEY DO NOT FEEL ROUGH SPRAY THE EXISTING ONES WITH HOLTS PRO-LUBE.
1 02118 - - Jib clew carbine hook SP15 / D18 8.49 NO - WASTE OF MONEY. IT IS HEAVY & BANGS ON THE MAST BADLY. MOST OF THE SERIOUS SPRINT SAILORS MANAGE WITHOUT. YOU CAN EITHER MAKE UP A THINNER ROPE STROP WHICH TIES DIRECTLY ON THE JIB OR USE A LONG PRESSED SHACKLE.
2 04002 - - Shroud wire SP15 43.36 YES - YOU DO NOT NEED TO DO THIS FOR THE NATIONALS IF YOUR EXISTING ONES HAVE NO BROKEN STRANDS. IT IS A GOOD IDEA TO DO IT AS A SAFETY MEASURE IF YOU PLAN TO DO MORE LONG DISTANCE UNESCORTED CRUISING.
1 04004 - - Forestay strop SP15 10.26 YES - AS WITH SHROUDS - BUT IF YOU DO NOT BUY A REPLACEMENT BE SURE TO ADD SOME STRING AS AN INSURANCE POLICY.
1 05017 - - Downhaul 3 X purchase System SP15 42.16 MOST OF US WHO HAVE FITTED THIS DO LIKE IT SO QUITE A GOOD THING TO GET.

Are plastic covered Shroud wires any good? YES ESPECIALLY IF YOU HAVE GOT A NEWISH SAIL. THEY PREVENT THE BLACK LINE ON THE SAIL.
Should I be spending more on a chunkier Forestay strop? YES
And finally, is the downhaul much improved over the old 2 x system? IT IS NICER TO USE BUT NOT ESSENTIAL.
Recently i've been having great troubles getting the sail hooked and unhooked at the top . IT IS PROBABLY JUST TECHNIQUE.

I also have a Cat Hawk wind indicator. My first one fell off during it's first outing - so i'm not sure I want to fit the (free) replacement for fear it's going to happen again. SOME PEOPLE SWEAR BY THEM. iI HAD ONE FOR A COUPLE OF SEASONS BUT MUCH PREFER THE STREAMER ON THE WIND WAND (SIMPLE, RELIABLE & EFFECTIVE)
Does anyone use these successfully?

Anonymous replied:

The Catamaran book, by Brian Phipps !!

Chris replied:

Thanks Anonymous - but I do have an old copy (came with the boat!)

It's the version that says, when your crew falls overboard, ensure you go round and when you're level with HER, pull HER in...

...the modern ones have lost the sexist comments