Dart 15 Forums

Hi all,
being new to the sport, I have a couple of questions.
Sorry if this sounds like a daft question but does the sprint have a maximum speed or has anyone recorded an achieved speed?
Secondly, is it possible to fly the Windward hull on a broadreach as I have read this the fastest way to sail, the boat in question had a dagger board which I would imagine would help.
Thirdly one of my rudders is split along the seam allowing water in. Any ideas what I can use to glue?
Thanks

Phil,
give me a call and I will tell you how I repaired by rudder after it split . It is essential that the rudder is dried out and you need to clean out the split and glue with fibre glass resin . Its all in the preparation .
Cheers
Derek.

Hi Phil

the best I've ever managed was just over 16 knots on a close reach but others may well have got more. I only weight 63kg so had to spill wind even though I was on the trapeze.

Gabriel

Phil

In a Sprint if you are flying a hull on a true broad reach you are probably about to pitchpole, not a recommended activity, especially for a newcomer, though from your questions I guess you'll find out how it's done sooner or later!

I'm about 13st (give or take a bit!) & only ever fly a hull on a beat or very close reach, whether in Una or Sport mode.

The most efficient point is with the windwatd hull just kissing the water, that way you minimise drag. Any higher out of the water & you are spilling wind out of the top of your sail, slipping sideways faster & becoming less efficient.

It sounds like you've been reading about bigger cat sailing with daggerboards & possibly jenakers, in that case they will be able to fly a hull more easily, but when the going gets tough those big cats give up & we keep going.

I recommend Brian Phipps' The Catamaran Book, see contacts for his website. It is based on the Dart 18 & so is more simillar to the Sprint 15 than stuff about daggerboard cats. As you will have seen Brian didn't do too badly at the Sport Nationals, so I think pretty much everyone with an interest in Sprint 15 sailing will have read this book!!!

Once you've played about at your local club try some traveller events, there's always someone around who will be happy to give you more advice than your brain can soak up !!

Hi Phil,
The fastest recorded speed that I am aware of is around 22 knots which was recorded unofficially at a TT Event a few years ago by a competitor with a GPS on board. Believe me - that's blisteringly fast!!
As Charles says, it's almost impossible to fly a hull on a broad reach unless you're close to a pitchpole, in which case your speed is dropping off. My advice for out and out speed is keep it flat (that's what the good guys do) and save flying a hull for a bit of fun and posing!!
Lastly, if you're new to all this, have you joined the Assoc. and had a magazine? If not, give me a call : newsletter@sprint15.com
If you have any further questions just place a posting and you'll be deluged with responses - I can guarantee it! Happy Sailing!
Cheers from the Magazine Editor

I think Phil is refering to a practice called "going wildthing". It is the art of flying a hull going down wind on 2 man cats by careful placing of the helm and crews weight on opposite sides to achieve the balance. I don't know much about it but I don't think is is a strong wind tactic - just someting for the lightish winds. It was talked about a fair bit some time ago but I have not seen much on it lately.
Someone who knows more about it might make a comment soon.
Cheers
Bob

I was sailing at Catamaran Yacht Club when "wild thing" was becoming well known, particularly for the larger cats with assymetrics/gennakers.
Inevitably it got tried out by the Hurricane 5.9s etc at the Club, and the Dart 18s had to have their go at it as well.

Bob is right - the idea is to encourage the windward hull to fly, especially in light conditions, to reduce drag, increase boatspeed, and improve the downwind angle. The crew moves to the leeward hull, possibly even leaning outboard and the helm balances the boat to keep the windward hull flying. On a singlehander the helm alone moves across the trampoline to fly the windward hull. Judging where best to sit fore and aft seemed tricky, but it may be more critical to get boatspeed first and then for the crew to cross the tramp as the helm bears away..... It can be very wet for the crew. In strong winds on some cats, both crew and helm may be out on the wire.....

The technique does work for many cats, and for some single handers. But it doesn't work favourably for all such cats, even when they have dagger boards. If you attend a big Cat Open and watch the fast cats in lighter winds, you'll see which do wild thing and which don't.

And it certainly didn't work for Dart 18s - I've been on the leeward hull, sluiced by water off the front beam (the drag from that alone must be detrimental!) while the helm disconsolately watched the conventionally sailed Dart 18s disappear, and insisted I "stay below" as it might be quicker..... Whether this was the lack of gennaker or dagger boards, or the hull shape - who knows?

But I reckoned it helped if the windward hull was "up a bit, but not flying" on a Dart 18 - Stuart Snell would know much better than me.

On a unarig Sprint 15, some helms sit on the leeward side of the cat when sailing downwind in light conditions (which lifts the windward hull a little), and one or two stand on the front beam/windward hull (to catch a bit more wind with their body). I've never worked out which was most effective in different wave conditions and wind strengths, and found that what gained on one lap sometimes seemed to lose out on another.

Thanks all for your replies,
I get the feeling I am trying to run before I can walk as it were, but then nothing ventured etc.
A bit late re the pitch pole advice (although appreciated) as I learnt this interesting manoeuvre trying to follow Derek James through a high wind gibe, he made it!
Re the Speed aspect, I have been toying with the idea of purchasing a Satnav called the Velocitek Speedpuck to help improve my general sailing skills of trim etc. Anyone got any views or experience with such things?
George,
I will ring re joining as I seem to have the Bug!
Gabriel,
nothing like a fast chick!

Gabriel,
nothing like a fast chick!

couldn't agree more Phil, although I'm actually a guy so doesn't apply in this instance!

Phil.T wrote:Hi all,
being new to the sport, I have a couple of questions.
Sorry if this sounds like a daft question but does the sprint have a maximum speed or has anyone recorded an achieved speed?
Secondly, is it possible to fly the Windward hull on a broadreach as I have read this the fastest way to sail, the boat in question had a dagger board which I would imagine would help.
Thirdly one of my rudders is split along the seam allowing water in. Any ideas what I can use to glue?
Thanks

Phil,

I have been clocking my boats speed since 2006 and generally on a flat calm sea with F4 I can get just over 18mph out of the boat and have never seen it more than 18.7mph but on a lake with no waves I can see it going faster since waves slow the boat down. The boat can sustain 15-16mph on reaches comfortably and I have been able to go upwind at about 9-10mph. I get best speed in sport mode but can get 15+ in unarig.

Now I'm a bit on the heavy side so a lighter weight sailor may get faster figures in lower winds but their peak speed maybe slower since they'll be over powered sooner.

I actually achieved this on Saturday in very large waves (5ft or so) with F6 of wind, I recorded a peak speed of 18.4 mph which I think I got on a reach or a short spell of uncontrolled running when caught by a sudden gust. I could have gone faster but the probability of capsize was too high, reaching with the waves running accross the boat not good since as the wave passes under the boat the leeward bow can get knocked offline which can in turn cause a pitchpole.


Martin S.

Oops soory Gabriel! I was on nights so a bit bleary eye'd
Martin,
reaching in waves must be a bit hair but sounds fun. What are you using to measure you speed, do you find it helps which sail trim etc?

Phil.T wrote:Oops soory Gabriel! I was on nights so a bit bleary eye'd
Martin,
reaching in waves must be a bit hair but sounds fun. What are you using to measure you speed, do you find it helps which sail trim etc?

I use a Garmin Foretrex 201 which doesn't have a detailed map with just a simple course plotted in realtime, there are screens that show compass headings and speed (you can customize them) but does do race start timing in nice big numbers so easy to read at a glance. Also it has a wrist strap so I simply use it like a watch with some additional functions To be honest after the race start I don't much look at it, except in light winds when it is useful to see if you are actually moving , just look at it after the race to see the stats!

Reaching in waves gets a bit of getting used to and you soon learn how close you can push it.

For reaching accross the waves, I normally fly the windward hull to allow the wave to pass through without too much disturbance, also I head up slightly into each wave to ease its passing. But yep being perched top of a 5ft wave with a similarly deep trough is a tad interesting when flying the hull you can be 10+ ft above the water!

Reaching into big waves is extremely wet and you need to control speed and sail power since too much power and you'll pitchpole but too little speed and you won't be able to go smoothly through/over the wave.

Now running can also get exciting especially if the wind is blowing in the same direction as the waves.

Martin S.

Martin , can you have a look at the Velocitek Speedpuck and let me know your thoughts in comparrison to your own Foretrex
Thanks Phil

Took my garmin etrex gps with me when videoing last bit,got 19 mph max but conditions in solent are not ideal with chop and bigger waves built up on most wind directions,wind and tide together flatten the sea a little but then you only have tide assistance deep off wind.
Have taken photo of monitor showing uploaded info and track.


I have posted garmin files on other forums but cant work out how to do it here but you would need a garmin program to open them.
Martin.