Dart 15 Forums

Question; Given that the Unarig and 2 up's race together on an equal footing, would there be objection if a boat was to sail an event in both modes and for their results to be counted together for the overall?

I often do this at club level. I'd be willing to take a crew to introduce someone to the class. This is very much a recruitment exercise and nobody in the class would object. In the next points race, I would revert to una-rig.

However, I would never bend the rules in this way at a championship.

For club racing I guess it's up to you, but in a Sprint 15 event I think you need to enter in a particular format and not swap over - despite the handicap.

I'm sure Bob will be best able to advise.

The question wasn't asked in the context of 'bending' rules or exploiting situations.
IF there is no discernable performance difference between the two modes.
I could be interested in giving my son(s) a taste of racing in a Traveller event, but couldn't be certain that they would tolerate a whole event, particulary in adverse conditions. Being able to default back to a unarig would be a useful.

Hi Andy
Yes it has been done, particularly for the case in question when a child could not be relied on to sail for the whole event. I have also known of a parent taking one child for some of the event and then swapping for another child for other races. You should request permission to do it from the race organiser (usually Erling) before you do it but I have never known it to be refused. The class prides itself in it's family friendly approach.
Cheers
Bob

Hi Andy,

Unarig and 2-up modes are probably only equivalent with a "small to normal size" adult and a small child (or 2 young teenagers), and only then in some wind conditions - ?maybe F2-F4?. Clearly, in those conditions a pair of normal size adults 2-up would be at a disadvantage. But if the wind shifted up during an event to F6+, going from a normal adult unarig to 2 normal adults 2-up could well be advantageous - just as would changing the crew on a 2-up boat from a small child to a normal adult. (I know from your earlier note that you'd be going from 2-up to unarig in such conditions - exactly the opposite.)

Events for 2 man boats do not generally permit crew changes without the consent of the Race Committee. I think a switch between unarig and 2-up is best seen as an extension of this standard constraint. A request should be made.

Bob's answer tells you that the Class is fully supportive in every respect in the case of "junior involvement" - I think we've even seen a "parent swap" as well as a "child swap".

But I'd bet the Class/a Race Committee would turn down a request for a pair from, say, Gordon, Stewart and me (Club mates) to go 2-up from unarig at a Traveller/Nationals when the wind changed from F2 to F6+...... and quite right too!!!

Thanks Bob,
That was kind of the answer I was looking for.
Good to know that it has been done before.
With that option available (and 2 children to keep amused), I would be more likely to get a family pass for an away traveller event.
Andy Mc.

I think its fine if you change children, it would only be a problem if you had a child for light winds then an adult when the wind increased.

since the PYs and SCHRS number now both differ for this its questionable however the same scenario exists for the Dart 18s sailed in either SH or DH format and for this we have accepted that the lower (faster) rating of the 2 should be counted as the overall rating.. we have gone one step further now by only publishing the low rating as the only Dart 18 rating.

I think I may consider doing the same for the sprint 15s at club level.

SimonGillis wrote:since the PYs and SCHRS number now both differ for this its questionable however the same scenario exists for the Dart 18s sailed in either SH or DH format and for this we have accepted that the lower (faster) rating of the 2 should be counted as the overall rating.. we have gone one step further now by only publishing the low rating as the only Dart 18 rating.

I think I may consider doing the same for the sprint 15s at club level.

Thanks Simon, I wasn't aware that the published PY's had diverged (although the SCHRS are different for the two modes).
If indeed there is a difference in handicaps applied for the two modes, then it would obviously make sense to apply the lower one throughout.
I can only reiterate that my reason would be to hopefully include young children in the experience whilst still having the opportunity to have an overall 'result' at the end of it, should I revert to S/H. I would hope that this fits with the general ethos of the class. I do however accept that you would need to 'legislate' so that people did not seek a tactical advantage in changing conditions as has been said previously.