Dart 15 Forums

Folks

As I venture back to wobbling around on a Sprint 15 after a few years away and sailing Flying Fifteens, I don't recall ever seeing a compass on a SP15.

Are they allowed?

I have in my FF a large Raymarine compass that we spend plenty of time looking at & reading from to the point now that being without one is a bit like sailing without a lifejacket.

I've seen them installed neatly on A class cat's and various other dinghies..

Hi Mark,
No compasses fixed to the boat are not allowed. Hand held are OK.
Cheers
Bob

Where is this in the rules please Bob?

It is covered by section 6 Specification.
There is no compass in the list of parts or drawings.
and 6b states:
"Any alterations to the hull construction, equipment, spars, sails or running rigging, as supplied by the manufacturers, except as specifically authorised by these rules, is prohibited.

Finally if there was a protest it would not pass 6d the 15 boat rule, where "A random sample of 15 boats shall be taken and measured using identical techniques. The dimensions of the disputed boat shall be equal to, or between, the maximum and the minimum dimensions obtained from these 15 boats."

It is common sense as well. We are a "One Design" class and the fitting of a compass to the boat helps the helm determine when to tack and is an unfair advantage. If you are concerned about safety (e.g.) getting lost in fog carry a pocket or wrist compass which can help you get home without helping you tack.
Cheers
Bob

On a Sprint 15, where would you put the binnacle?

Thanks Bob - I seem to recall there was something in relation to compasses.

A compass is as fundamental to sailing as any essential piece of equipment. Rarely if ever is it listed on any one design boat build list. We are well behind the times in the sprint class.

A compass is a piece of safety equipment as much as it is to enhance your results. Maybe it should be debated at next year's nationals. Too late for this year's.

This was the first question I raised 5 years ago when I joined the class.

Let alone not having a minimum weight for new boats to be built to.

I will be interested to hear other sailors views. Please chip in if you have an opinion on this.
Cheers
Bob

A compass is pretty useless from a safety point of view unless you know where you are and where you want to be. A GPS is much more useful if fog descends.

I carry a GPS watch at all times when sailing but when I am racing I have it just show the time. I only look at the data when I stop racing. I can download the track onto a phone and computer and see my tacking angles.

I could use it to tell me where the start line is and when to tack but I feel that would be both cheating and a distraction. Fine on a larger boat with more crew but totally inappropriate for our simple catamarans.

I don't think we need either a compass or GPS as part of race strategy.

Meanwhile some race officers continue to show wind angles on the committee boat despite it being illegal in our rules.

In my view - you would only have a compass for competitive racing reasons - ie. to spot wind shifts or to know where the windward mark is on a long course (even though our Nationals rules preclude the RO from posting the bearings).

The safety argument is weak given all of us sail without them currently as do many other sailors. I could make the safety argument for carrying a paddle, for example, but not for a compass.

No fleet carries a compass in their rules for safety reasons to my knowledge. I doubt any fleet carries them as mandatory in their rules at all. But obviously other classes permit them. Our list of permitted equipment does not include a compass. In the same way, I am also not permitted to put a 40hp engine on the back, although I could argue it is not expressly forbidden in the rules.

If any one in the fleet thinks that permitting compasses as an option is a good idea - then it just needs to be put forward as a proposal at an AGM for discussion by the fleet. Personally, I don't have strong views either way.

Jenny

One of the joys of sailing 'open' boats, such as ours, is that we can get away from everyday gadgetry. I know people whom, the moment you speak to them.............. out pops a mobile phone. They couldn't even stroll along the banks of the Serpentine without resorting to GPS. We've become ridiculous.

But a compass to get me from one side of Grafham Water to the other, strikes me as absurd.

"But a compass to get me from one side of Grafham Water to the other, strikes me as absurd"

..you might want to keep that opinion to yourself @ GWSC as there are plenty of people that use an on board compass bearing to assess the many shifts albeit predominantly upwind. A compass is also a good way to help gauge any line bias although agreed this is more beneficial with a known course axis.

It's clearly not about navigation so you've missed the point entirely.

I agree that the seat of the pants sailing associated to the SP15 is a good thing and as said before other one design classes permit an on board compass. It helps with strategy - why would that be a bad thing.

It strikes me that if a hand held is OK which I'd imagine is a bit spurious given all the arm movement we need to sail, why wouldn't a fixed compass be allowed?

The SP15 being a relatively slow to tack boat means that advantages/disadvantages on wind shifts are not as pronounced, but to me it's still a good idea to help assess the ever changing winds & especially at places like GWSC where the surrounding landscape has a huge bearing on your progress. If you're not fussed about knowing or can't work it out that's also fine, but for those of us that are I believe a compass is a good idea..

Corky the Cat wrote:One of the joys of sailing 'open' boats, such as ours, is that we can get away from everyday gadgetry. I know people whom, the moment you speak to them.............. out pops a mobile phone. They couldn't even stroll along the banks of the Serpentine without resorting to GPS. We've become ridiculous.

But a compass to get me from one side of Grafham Water to the other, strikes me as absurd.

But the big question is how come you have not entered the Nationals yet.......

Good question, Mr C. Fortunately it's not of a technical nature. So I can answer. I ain't got one.

Having sold my Sprint, I realise there is a vacuum in my life. A sun tan in the garden is not the same as the one you get on the water. In fact, you can get one on the water even when the sun isn't shining. So I'm looking to buy a Sprint again. Corky will soon be flashing his £4 notes!