Sting conversions

[Andrew Hannah]

I know someone who has a Dart 15 'Sting'. ie same as the standard hulls, but with a different mast and sail plan.

Is it worthwhile converting a Sting into a standard Sprint?

Has anybody made this conversion? If so, how much did/would it cost?

[Steve Willis]

Andrew,

Search the forum using 'Sting' in the keywords box. The need to replace mast sails etc means you would end up spending more than you can get a Sprint 15 for secondhand - or the Sting would be worth on completion.

Steve

[Bob Carter]

Hi Andrew,
Yes, I suggested it to someone on these pages some years ago and to my surprise they did it. The converted boat was sailing on the circuit for several years but I will not blow the gaff by mentioning the sail number.
It was brought about by the fact that I don't like Stings too much and the fact that the Mylar sails fall apart after about 10 years and since all Stings are all older than that, there are very few good sails left. No one makes the sails any more. To do the conversion you need to replace the mast, the set of sails and the rigging - quite a lot of kit and it's not cheap - about £2000 worth if you do it with new parts. It is only practical if you have got a lot of bits from an old Sprint 15.
One thing I had not reckoned on was that the chainplates for the bridle on a Sting are set further aft than on a Sprint 15 - hence the hulls are even different (and not consistent with Sprint 15 class rules). This was not discovered until after the conversion was done. Thankfully, Steve Sawford came to the owners rescue by moving the chainplates - not a job to be undertaken lightly or by the novice.
So my advice, is don't bother. You can probably do best by either
a) selling off the bits for spares (rudders, beams, tramp, main sheet, etc) and junking the rest. or
b) selling the boat as a going concern for fun sailing on E-Bay where people seem to buy anything which is slightly dubious (even if it has a cheap out of class mainsail)
Cheers
Bob

[Steve Sawford]

The Sting is not dead .

Having sailed and raced one at Rutland SC I found it was a Great boat in a force 3 - 4 and would do well in club racing. I have Revamped a couple and lately it seems there is a new interest in these cheap boats.
I can supply all the parts for it including better made sails.

Steve

[Bob Carter]

Hi Steve
It is good that you can supply the bits for old Stings - especially the sails.
My issue with them is that when sailed single handed I have found that very few people can right them from an inverted capsize. This means they are not great to sail when there are no rescue facilities to hand. Quite a few coastal sailors sold them for that very reason.
Cheers
Bob

[Frank]

I had always thought that mast & sail came from a D 18. If not any idea on the Sting mast length & sail area ?

[Pewing]

When the original Sting was put on the water it came with a longer Dart 15 mast, this was fine until you put the sail up. When we took this boat to Lake Como for a pre launch photo shoot, I took the boat out for the first time and as soon as I sheeted in the mast went into an s-shape, to much power for that mast.

So a cut down Dart 18 section was used, which unfortunatley added some extra weight which resulted in not much extra performance, which was a shame as the boat sailed very well. As for the sail lasting for 10 years it seems pretty good to me.

When we launched the boat at the London Boat Show, which coincided with an excellent review from Yachts and Yachting and a front cover picture of it blasting on Lake Como (Picture only showing bottom third of the mast), we sold a lot very quickly, then the sales slowed down down significantly within 12 months.

It felt as though we had found a small niche, filled it and moved on.

The inverting issue of the Sting seemed to be alleviated when the mast sectioned was changed to the 18 section, righting although not easy was achievable by uncleating all the sheets and travellor, pointing the mast into the wind, not the bow, easing out of the water allowing it to drain and it would come up.

I would say it was more of an issue righting a 16 single handed than a Sting

[Andrew Hannah]

Following the above comments, I took another look at the Dart Sting in question. I deduce the Sting is a hybrid D15/18. As Bob has noted (24th Feb), the bridle chain plates are much further aft than a standard '15'.

And guess what? The port chain plate has fallen off!

[Bob Carter]

When the original Sting was put on the water it came with a longer Dart 15 mast, this was fine until you put the sail up. When we took this boat to Lake Como for a pre launch photo shoot, I took the boat out for the first time and as soon as I sheeted in the mast went into an s-shape, to much power for that mast.

So a cut down Dart 18 section was used, which unfortunatley added some extra weight which resulted in not much extra performance, which was a shame as the boat sailed very well. As for the sail lasting for 10 years it seems pretty good to me.

When we launched the boat at the London Boat Show, which coincided with an excellent review from Yachts and Yachting and a front cover picture of it blasting on Lake Como (Picture only showing bottom third of the mast), we sold a lot very quickly, then the sales slowed down down significantly within 12 months.

It felt as though we had found a small niche, filled it and moved on.

The inverting issue of the Sting seemed to be alleviated when the mast sectioned was changed to the 18 section, righting although not easy was achievable by uncleating all the sheets and travellor, pointing the mast into the wind, not the bow, easing out of the water allowing it to drain and it would come up.

I would say it was more of an issue righting a 16 single handed than a Sting

Hi Peter,
Thanks for your comments. It good to get the story from the horses mouth. Just a couple of points:
Your right about a 10 year sail life being good if it is used regularly. The trouble is with the Sting Sails is that the material seems to have a shelf life of 10 years or so even if it is not used the (mylar) material properties seem to deteriorate. When you combine this with the fact the sails are no longer available means that "in class boats" no longer exist. It is good that Steve Sawford can get sails made to keep the boats going, though. I guess that we have been spoiled in the Spark/Dart 15/Sprint 15 Class where the (dacron) sails do not deteriorate with time - only with use. There are lots of old Sparks around with their original sails that still perform OK. We have #404 at Grafham and we still use the original sails which are 29 years old (although we do also have a new set to use when racing).
I'm sure that you are right about the Sting being easier to right single handed than a Dart 16. Strong / heavish guys (13 stone plus) seem to be able to manage to right the Sting. Gerry Reeve sailed one at Grafham for a few years and he seemed to be able to right it some of the time but was often rescued. He liked the boat, however, and it went very well. I know a few Sting owners who sail on the coast without rescue who sold their Stings and went back to the Dart 15 because of this problem. It does not matter too much if you sail on a lake with good rescue facilities and do not capsize too much. We had one guy at Grafham who sailed an Inter 17 for a few years which he could not right which caused much hilarity in the Sprint 15 fleet as you could predict the outcome on a day with a bit of breeze. His procedure was 1) set up boat 2) start 1st race 3) capsize 4) be rescued 5) put away boat 6) take an early shower and go home. All this while the Sprint 15s charge around in great conditions to sail.
Cheers
Bob

[Pewing]

Hi Bob

I hope things with you are well, I do tend to agree with you as far as the Dart 15 is concerned (I will never get used to calling it a Sprint). I have in the past heard and watched many manufacturers and sales people say thier CAT is a single hander, they seem to forget that you have to launch and recover it, and also righting it after a capsize.

The Dart 18 can be sailed single handed but again launch and recovery is a problem, especially where there is a gradiant.

The best story I overheard was with a Prindle salesman (take a guess) who said his Prindle 18 could be sailed singlehanded more effectively than a Dart 18. He was obviously a better Salesman than me because he took the order. A month or two later the poor sailor came back to me trying to trade the Prindle in for a 18.

I agree the most versatile Cat on the market is a 15 followed by the 18, I have one of each. Do you think I`m biased in any way.

Pete

[Frank]

I would be interested in seeing the Lake Como pictures, any ideas ?

[Peter Cullum]

Does anyone know roughly how many Stings were built?

And how many were sold in the UK??

I've just bought a Sting and I'm trying to guess it's age.

[Bob Carter]

Hi Peter,
The Sting was launched in 1991 but I think most boats were sold in 92/93 - after that they are not in the sales literature. My guess is that they made about 60 and that 70% of them were sold on the continent.
Perhaps Peter (Ewing) can remember if these numbers are about right.
Cheers
Bob

[Pewing]

Hi Bob

As far as the numbers go, I think you are close but I would say about 80 boats would be a more accurate figure.

Its interesting you believe that most Stings were sold overseas, in fact thats the market it was targeting, as Dart 15 sales in Europe were virtually nonexistant. The reality is though a mere handful were sold to dealers in Europe the rest were in the U.K.

It begs the question of "Where are they now"

Pete

[Peter Cullum]

Well, there's a nice one in my back garden - just tidying the skegs and rudder blades when it stops hailing.

There must be a few about still as they're not old enough to be ratty. I have a feeling that there's at least one other at Draycote.

We should try to find out how many more are still about. Must be easy enough to spot - black anodised beams, mast, tiller etc and one cocktail cabinet on starboard side if it's anything like mine.

Pete Cullum